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Air Algerie loses contact with its plane leaving Ouagadougou

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Air Algerie loses contact with its plane leaving Ouagadougou

Old 26th Jul 2014, 11:41
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Swift Air business

" Last year(2013), Swiftair won a €11.9 million contract with Spain's Interior Ministry, to transport deported immigrants, in charter flights, back to their home countries." quote from WSJ 24/07/14
Swiftair Had Relatively Clean Record Before Air Algérie Flight Went Missing - WSJ
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 13:17
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Originally Posted by Squawk_ident
No indication given on which Black box has been found...
A second one has now been recovered.

http://www.laprovence.com/article/ac...retrouvee.html

Last edited by sitigeltfel; 26th Jul 2014 at 14:50. Reason: Link added
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 15:30
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Radar screen capture

About the video showing the track of the DAH5017 on a radar screen, you may find this video - part of the news- in this link


Le 20h de France 2 : journal télévisé du 25 juillet 2014 en replay

Go to + 11'10'' to have the beginning of the topic. Comments are in French of course but the most interesting is the video.
This capture could not have been filmed in France were all matters about aviation and ATC is stricly monitored and considered as a secret of State.
I think that the officials aviation authorities in Burkina Faso allowed journalists to do their jobs and shown all evidences in their possesion. This is totally unthinkable in France (and likely in other countries...)but it was done before the Malian government requested the assistance of France in the inquiry. Now all the military behaviours are in place and nothing will filter. Fortunately the Burkinabese were not told to refrain from unveiling this record.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 15:44
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Last year(2013), Swiftair won a €11.9 million contract with Spain's Interior Ministry, to transport deported immigrants, in charter flights, back to their home countries." quote from WSJ 24/07/14
Swiftair Had Relatively Clean Record Before Air Algérie Flight Went Missing - WSJ
They are probably earning even more money via their P2F scheme and low paid pilotos treated like

As for stupid french president Hollande who already tells medias that weather was the main cause of this crash, the captain had 15 000 hours on MD series and his copilot had logged around 7000 hours on type. They both flew at Spanair, and they probably know how to avoid CBs!!!!!
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 23:01
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Satellite image

AV Herald now has posted a very interesting satellite image from the time of the crash...
Crash: Swiftair MD83 over Mali on Jul 24th 2014, aircraft lost altitude
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 23:21
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wind check

when you find a plane that has crashed , and at the time it went missing there was a giant thunderstorm, guessing the wx is a factor is not really that dumb.


hours don't mean much. we don't know what happened for sure and I would like to know if the wx radar was working properly.

the effects of thunderstorms can be realized dozens of miles from the actual cloud. Hail, even severe or extreme turbulence.

We shall see.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 23:27
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Don't speak french

Did they mention the second target on the screen. Ghost target, it had a squawk code of 2000 as well, just a false SSR return or what?
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 23:53
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CDN_ATC:
I speak French (though am not a pilot, so don't necessarily know lots of technical French), and watched the video.

No, they did not really discuss the radar image having two signals, the main gist was that the plane was flying at 8000 meters, changed heading, and then rapidly fell out of the sky and disappeared off radar.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 00:30
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As a controller (obviously) that's not what I would expect from a ghost target, track was slightly different... although it could simply be the way their systems function.

They were already squawking 2000, which is odd considering they were still in radar coverage, but perhaps they had been terminated prior to that, I say all this not knowing anything about their procedures.

I'd like to see that radar tape played in normal speed from departure...
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 00:30
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kbboca

I am a pilot, but don't speak french, (though I like the film, "The Umbrellas of Cherbourg).


You said the plane was flying at 8000 meters. Are you sure? I would have thought the plane was flying the cruise segment at around the middle 30's (thirty thousand feet plus).

8000 meters is about 24000 feet plus. just double checking.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 00:50
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I listened twice. They did say 8000 meters. I was surprised by that too, since I assumed the flight would be higher.

Here's a bit more of an exact translation: "Taking off in full night, the flight was flying at 8000 meters when it demanded a change of heading 20 minutes after take off. "The aircraft" [I can't quite make out the word used - it almost sounds like they say "the wings"] then fell suddenly to 4 millimeters [yes! that's really what it says] before disappearing from the screen."

Note: This is the radar image from the Ouagadougou control tower.

Note: I'm very sure about the 8000 meters ("huit mille metres") and the 20 minutes after take off ("vingt minutes apres decollage") - both facts which surprised me somewhat. The key section is from 11:20 - 11:35 of the video if anyone else wants to give this a listen to double check what is said.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 01:04
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kbboca


thanks again. this doesn't make sense to me as the plane should have been higher as you indicate.

interestingly enough (though I am not a METER man) this is about the altitude included in FAA warnings for terrorist activities.

I do hope we find something out soon on the CVR.

Thanks again kbboca. 20 minutes should have easily gotten the plane into the 30's (meter =)


ps...26246.72 feet =8000 meters

(it took me awhile)
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 01:40
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Glad to help. I'm thinking the reporter may have misspoken. I've certainly seen reports that the plane was higher (various articles I've seen say "9000 meters," "10 kilometres" or "33,000 feet")

One other note about the course change request "20 minutes after take off" - that seems to be accurate. Looking back at the early reports, e.g. this BBC story, (BBC News - Algeria airliner feared crashed on flight from Burkina Faso), does seem to confirm that the heading change was requested about 20 minutes into the flight.

Burkina Faso Transport Minister Jean Bertin Ouedraogo said the plane sent its last message at around 01:30 GMT, asking air traffic controllers in Niger to change its route because of bad weather.

So there were about 25 minutes between that request and loss of contact. (1:55 GMT) The TV program showing the Ouagadougou radar is misleading in that it makes it sound as if the disappearance from the radar immediately followed the change in heading.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 02:35
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Originally Posted by Kbboca
"The aircraft" [I can't quite make out the word used, it almost sounds like they say "the wings"] then fell suddenly to 4 millimeters [yes! that's really what it says] before disappearing from the screen."
Well, I'm sorry but that's not quite right. They did say "4,000 m" (quatre mille mètres, not quatre millimètres) and there is nothing about wings.

The sentence following the heading change request (that you got perfectly right) is :
"... mais il chute rapidement à 4000 mètres d'altitude, avant de disparaître complètement des écrans radar."
That means: "... but it suddenly descended/fell to an altitude of 4,000 m, before completely disappearing from the radar display."

I don't know where they got their 8,000m from. The display clearly shows FL310 before the event.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 02:58
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"quatre mille metres" Of course. DUH, I should have figured that out! Sorry!

(Sometimes the vocalization of final e's in French words spoken by native French speakers can throw me, because those e's are largely unpronounced by the West Africans I work with.)


Just noticed an article (in French) with comments by Remi Jouty, director of the BEA. Two BEA investigators are at the scene. Jouty is basically saying it's too early to cite a probable cause of the crash.

http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-faits...bea-7773437558

The most notable news from the article is that the black boxes will be sent to France for analysis at the request of the Malian authorities.

Last edited by Kbboca; 27th Jul 2014 at 03:13. Reason: added article link and details
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 06:10
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It's actually very normal to sqwak 2000 in non-radar environment.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 08:01
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Flew around there on the 22nd (GMMN-DXXX via GAO) and I had my thoughts about not beeing allowed to climb above 400 (as per NOTAM). My kite can go to 470 (which we use very seldom, got to burn lots of fuel) but we regularly criuse at 430. The difference is often signifcant.We were very lucky, the ITCZ had taken a day off, nothing but sunshine and haze down low....
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 08:07
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wind check

when you find a plane that has crashed , and at the time it went missing there was a giant thunderstorm, guessing the wx is a factor is not really that dumb.


hours don't mean much. we don't know what happened for sure and I would like to know if the wx radar was working properly.

the effects of thunderstorms can be realized dozens of miles from the actual cloud. Hail, even severe or extreme turbulence.

We shall see
There are thousands and thousands of airliners everywhere in the world that fly around this kind of weather. When you have a 20'000+ hours experience in the cockpit, you do know how to check the flight plan route and weather report before departure and you know how to avoid the red cells on-route. Maybe there was an issue with the wx radar, you are absolutely right, and that wouldn´t be surprising from a Swiftair aircraft. However, if weather can indeed be the main cause of air disasters during the take off and landing phases, it is very unlikely to put a modern airliner down from FL300.
Now there is something that the french government is trying to hide from the beginning, there was a Hezbollah leader on board the flight plus 33 french soldiers including a couple of commanders from the french army.
There are also some parts of the wreckage more than 10 kilometers from the crash site which means the airplane would have exploded in the air.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 08:39
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Sources of this?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 08:43
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Air Algerie AH5017: 'Hezbollah Leader And French Troops Were On Board Flight'

Adds a bit of spice. I suppose.
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