Air Algerie loses contact with its plane leaving Ouagadougou
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I thouht to both engines' icing in [01:38, 01:41] and degradation starting without possibility to stop it.
Where is the readable part of the CVR with sounds of that flight ?
Where is the readable part of the CVR with sounds of that flight ?
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French BEA update
As result of the blocked pressure sensors and resulting incorrect EPR data autothrottle limited the thrust available at an value that was insufficient to maintain speed. Over 5:35 minutes the aircraft's indicated speed reduced from 290 to 200 knots, the angle of attack increased beyond stall. 20 seconds after the aircraft entered stall the autopilot disconnected causing the aircraft to abruptedly roll left to a bank angle of 140 degrees and a drop of the nose by about 80 degrees. The recorded data suggest that there has been no stall recovery done by the crew. Following the roll and nose down there are control inputs recorded to roll the aircraft right and pull the nose up.
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Very weird, there was no MASTER CAUTION nor stick pusher activation during the whole flight after reaching cruise conditions; even till it crashed. Does anyone know why ?
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alph2z
well, first off there is no stick pusher , shaker yes, big "STALL" light in front of your face.
I can imagine that not having engine anti ice on is a big part of this, you always protect with ice protection in cloud or storm.
To not notice 90 knot loss of speed over a 5 minute period is awful.
TO pull UP in a stall is wrong too.
This is not a weakness to the type. You either select an altitude, power setting and ice protection, and consider them all in your decision making or you don't. IF not enough power is available with ice protection for a given weight and altitude THEN YOU ARE TOO HIGH and must descend. THIS IS A WEAKNESS with all airplanes, not just this type
5 minutes, FIVE MINUTES without looking at airspeed is criminal.
EVERY PILOT better reconsider how the wing flys. Back to basics. In the old T configuration of Steam Gauges, the first one , reading left to right, IS THE AIRSPEED.
Guessing this plane had old steam gauge or mixture, if anyone knows for sure, let us all know.
AIRSPEED must be in your scan, certainly more often nearer the ground, but you better look at it in cruise!
well, first off there is no stick pusher , shaker yes, big "STALL" light in front of your face.
I can imagine that not having engine anti ice on is a big part of this, you always protect with ice protection in cloud or storm.
To not notice 90 knot loss of speed over a 5 minute period is awful.
TO pull UP in a stall is wrong too.
This is not a weakness to the type. You either select an altitude, power setting and ice protection, and consider them all in your decision making or you don't. IF not enough power is available with ice protection for a given weight and altitude THEN YOU ARE TOO HIGH and must descend. THIS IS A WEAKNESS with all airplanes, not just this type
5 minutes, FIVE MINUTES without looking at airspeed is criminal.
EVERY PILOT better reconsider how the wing flys. Back to basics. In the old T configuration of Steam Gauges, the first one , reading left to right, IS THE AIRSPEED.
Guessing this plane had old steam gauge or mixture, if anyone knows for sure, let us all know.
AIRSPEED must be in your scan, certainly more often nearer the ground, but you better look at it in cruise!
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there was no MASTER CAUTION nor stick pusher activation during the whole flight after reaching cruise conditions; even till it crashed. Does anyone know why ?
The AOA data from the FDR did not make sense and so was omitted from the interim report for that reason.
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skyhighfallguy: well, first off there is no stick pusher , shaker yes, ...
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Excuse me for asking questions straight away as a total newbie, but I can't understand the logic of this.
How is it possible that a crew doesn't notice that they are flying much slower than expected and the nose is pointing way higher than it should be? I know that they have more than one way to ascertain speed (airspeed meter, GPS, do they still have an inertial platform?) and whatever the cause may be, how come they just didn't accelerate first, worry about the cause later?
How is it possible that a crew doesn't notice that they are flying much slower than expected and the nose is pointing way higher than it should be? I know that they have more than one way to ascertain speed (airspeed meter, GPS, do they still have an inertial platform?) and whatever the cause may be, how come they just didn't accelerate first, worry about the cause later?
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How is it possible that a crew doesn't notice that they are flying much slower than expected and the nose is pointing way higher than it should be?
Originally Posted by alph2z
Very weird, there was no MASTER CAUTION nor stick pusher activation during the whole flight after reaching cruise conditions; even till it crashed. Does anyone know why ?
Last recording was 384KIAS at 10°AOB...
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2 weeks ago the 2 French judges in charge of the French judicial investigation ( as 54 French nationals were on board) gave a briefing to the families.
One of them talked to "Le Figaro" newspaper ;
Brief extracts of the article :
1- Undetected Icing conditions. Aircraft stalled due icing of the engines sensors which reduced the thrust , while AP tried to kept a/c level . Both not detected by crew. ( This is also on the BEA preliminary report)
2- when a/c stalled , PF pulled control column and kept it pulled , aggravating the stall.
3- Both pilots were not full time employed as pilots but were performing other jobs 6 months a year.
4-The Simulator used by the company ( Swiftair) to train and renew Qualifications was not the exact type of the aircraft flown.
5. Both pilots had never flown/worked in Africa before this mission, their only experience was the Algiers - Ouagadougou route. They were doing this ( night) route everyday since one month., They did not return to Spain since the beginning of their assignment. Fatigue is mentioned.
6 . On this flight this day, there was nobody available in Ouagadougou to load the luggage, so both pilots helped load the luggage on board, aggravating the fatigue.
7: Load and balance sheets were incorrect.
8:The weather briefing sheet they received prior take off was “ more than 2,5 hours old “
Again this is what the article reported . So to be taken as such.
TIA
One of them talked to "Le Figaro" newspaper ;
Brief extracts of the article :
1- Undetected Icing conditions. Aircraft stalled due icing of the engines sensors which reduced the thrust , while AP tried to kept a/c level . Both not detected by crew. ( This is also on the BEA preliminary report)
2- when a/c stalled , PF pulled control column and kept it pulled , aggravating the stall.
3- Both pilots were not full time employed as pilots but were performing other jobs 6 months a year.
4-The Simulator used by the company ( Swiftair) to train and renew Qualifications was not the exact type of the aircraft flown.
5. Both pilots had never flown/worked in Africa before this mission, their only experience was the Algiers - Ouagadougou route. They were doing this ( night) route everyday since one month., They did not return to Spain since the beginning of their assignment. Fatigue is mentioned.
6 . On this flight this day, there was nobody available in Ouagadougou to load the luggage, so both pilots helped load the luggage on board, aggravating the fatigue.
7: Load and balance sheets were incorrect.
8:The weather briefing sheet they received prior take off was “ more than 2,5 hours old “
Again this is what the article reported . So to be taken as such.
TIA
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Report on Air Algerie reportedly was released today
Inquiry blames crew failures for 2014 plane crash in Mali
Published April 22, 2016
· Associated Press
PARIS – Air accident investigators say crew errors caused the 2014 Air Algerie crash over Mali, blaming a mixture of mistakes for the disaster which killed 116 people.
France's Analysis and Investigations Bureau says that the McDonnell Douglas MD-83 went down in July 2014 near the rural town of Gossi after problems with its sensors that were probably caused by obstruction by ice crystals.
The bureau's report says the plane's crew didn't activate the aircraft's anti-icing mechanism even though they were flying in an area where the presence of ice crystals was likely and reacted late when the plane started to slow and then stall.
Friday's report says the crew never recovered from the stall, sending the aircraft plummeting.
The report's recommendations included studying a permanent anti-icing system for the plane's sensors.
--------------------------------
link to english version of final report - https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...v140724.en.pdf
Published April 22, 2016
· Associated Press
PARIS – Air accident investigators say crew errors caused the 2014 Air Algerie crash over Mali, blaming a mixture of mistakes for the disaster which killed 116 people.
France's Analysis and Investigations Bureau says that the McDonnell Douglas MD-83 went down in July 2014 near the rural town of Gossi after problems with its sensors that were probably caused by obstruction by ice crystals.
The bureau's report says the plane's crew didn't activate the aircraft's anti-icing mechanism even though they were flying in an area where the presence of ice crystals was likely and reacted late when the plane started to slow and then stall.
Friday's report says the crew never recovered from the stall, sending the aircraft plummeting.
The report's recommendations included studying a permanent anti-icing system for the plane's sensors.
--------------------------------
link to english version of final report - https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...v140724.en.pdf
Last edited by Passenger 389; 22nd Apr 2016 at 18:42. Reason: add link to Report
