Tel Aviv
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"I am surprised at these airlines not flying.." Placed in a context where a minute concentration of volcanic ash grounds all flights, how can you be surprised, espada, at airlines making the call when there are lethal missiles flying?
HAMAS has attempted to acquire longer range radar guided missiles. As pointed out the IAF destroyed a inbound shipment not that long ago. Anyone sure that Israel has stopped every single one?
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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In a situation like the current Tel Aviv one it will be the insurance market that will be calling the shots. The insurers can do a number of things, the two most likely are to 1). Suspend all insurance for aircraft flying into Tel Aviv, or, (and more likely in this case), 2). Charge an additional premium for each and every flight. It may be worth the extra for some airlines and not for others. Airlines that lease their aircraft may have to comply with the instructions of the leasing company too.
parabellum, Spot on. Recollect being told off for using an unconventional night arrival to Basrah. The real prob was that, had my company declared that they were operating into a war zone, insurance premiums would have increased.
Same with oil tankers holding SE of Hormuz for as long as possible before going up to load.
Same with oil tankers holding SE of Hormuz for as long as possible before going up to load.
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Out of interest, what life cover do your companies give you to operate into these places? I just came back from there yesterday and I wonder if we are selling our souls too cheap!
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Basil / Parabellum
You are correct about insurance as my father in law was ex ins aviation broker and he has made similar comments to yourselves.
Also the tanker issue is correct, although the real "hot" time was during the Iran /Iraq war with war crews being put on to bring the tankers up to the top of the Gulf. A lot of money made by small number of crew, but a few ships and men were lost, and many strafed. I was out there at the time and it was interesting talking to the crews, and their views of certain allied Navy,s which were out there at the time.
You are correct about insurance as my father in law was ex ins aviation broker and he has made similar comments to yourselves.
Also the tanker issue is correct, although the real "hot" time was during the Iran /Iraq war with war crews being put on to bring the tankers up to the top of the Gulf. A lot of money made by small number of crew, but a few ships and men were lost, and many strafed. I was out there at the time and it was interesting talking to the crews, and their views of certain allied Navy,s which were out there at the time.
Last edited by Mr Mac; 30th Jul 2014 at 21:56.
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Safe Enough But Not Prepared To Fly There
I operated into TLV recently and we were held off about 50 miles whilst missiles shot down a rocket near the airfield. We were then vectored in from the North & departed in a similar direction keeping us away from all the action in the South West. My only reservation was the use of landing lights which made us an easier target in the air, and a concern having just refuelled about what we might do with the passengers if the airfield received a "3 minute warning" of incoming rockets. Other than that it was safe enough and I'd have no real safety concerns about operating into there. HOWEVER .....
... With the world up in arms and threatening sanctions against Russia for apparently supplying missiles to Ukrainian separatists for killing 298 civilians on MH17, there seems to be an eerie silence over the killing of some 1200+ civilians in Gaza. Many of these are reported as women and children with UN schools and hospitals being hit.
Sorry, but to me this seems a disproportionate response to 3(?) Israelis killed in rocket attacks.
Our military forces had to deal with people hiding weapons next to schools & hospitals in the Gulf war .... We lived with the frustration and didn't go bombing them irrespectively.
So although I have no real safety concerns operating into there, I do have a moral concern. I don't wish to condone this sort of action, so have declined to operate any further flights there until this stops.
It won't make any difference but makes me feel that I can show my disapproval in a peaceful way by withdrawing my professional services and refusing to operate into Tel Aviv for the time being.
... With the world up in arms and threatening sanctions against Russia for apparently supplying missiles to Ukrainian separatists for killing 298 civilians on MH17, there seems to be an eerie silence over the killing of some 1200+ civilians in Gaza. Many of these are reported as women and children with UN schools and hospitals being hit.
Sorry, but to me this seems a disproportionate response to 3(?) Israelis killed in rocket attacks.
Our military forces had to deal with people hiding weapons next to schools & hospitals in the Gulf war .... We lived with the frustration and didn't go bombing them irrespectively.
So although I have no real safety concerns operating into there, I do have a moral concern. I don't wish to condone this sort of action, so have declined to operate any further flights there until this stops.
It won't make any difference but makes me feel that I can show my disapproval in a peaceful way by withdrawing my professional services and refusing to operate into Tel Aviv for the time being.
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What I find disturbing is that the Iron Dome system can not be infallible (no system is 100% reliable) and as such it only needs one errant missile and then whatever excuses Israel gives it would be in the same position as those that shot down MH17
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I think the USA has just approved another $250M to improve the Iron Dome system.
We should strive to make it 100% reliable.
And then give exactly the same system to the Palestinians.
We should strive to make it 100% reliable.
And then give exactly the same system to the Palestinians.
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Business as usual everybody?
Hamas warned airlines to stay away on Thursday morning. It said it had fired a rocket towards Ben Gurion, but an Israeliairportspokesman said there were no disruptions reported to Thursday’s flight schedules
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So from one perspective we can't let terrorists/freedom figthers (depending on how you look at it) win, and want to keep air traffic flowing.
From another, MH17, they should have stayed out of "the war zone", or been routed around it.
In my opinion those two regions are in the same mess, and I have a feeling both Ukraine and Israel, from a political standpoint, don't like the idea of having terrorists/freedom figthers win by shutting down the airspace.
Now the question is, do we really want to see another aircraft shot down, carrying innocent victims (even though people travelling to Israel may know the risk) Simply because a gonverment want to make a political statement?
Controversial??
From another, MH17, they should have stayed out of "the war zone", or been routed around it.
In my opinion those two regions are in the same mess, and I have a feeling both Ukraine and Israel, from a political standpoint, don't like the idea of having terrorists/freedom figthers win by shutting down the airspace.
Now the question is, do we really want to see another aircraft shot down, carrying innocent victims (even though people travelling to Israel may know the risk) Simply because a gonverment want to make a political statement?
Controversial??
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Hamas warns int'l airlines from heading to TLV
CNBC.com - 20 Aug 2014: Hamas warns int'l airlines from heading to Israel's Ben Gurion Airport
Last edited by heavy.airbourne; 23rd Aug 2014 at 00:52. Reason: added source and date
