MH17 down near Donetsk

[JamesT73J]

Originally Posted by OleOle

Any idea on the beige box, that seems to have taken a shrapnel hit?

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/drugo...4_original.jpg

Is that not one of the primary instrument displays (none are visible in the nose wreckage, only the standbys)?

It's definitely a screen of some sort, and it's the right colour.

[OleOle]

Thanks, JamesT73J, TwoOneFour

Then the side with the smoldered whole is the top.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../3/0561319.jpg

[wangdangdoodle]

Note that men shown in video referenced by Cappt are from Ukrainian Ministry of Emergency Situations (i.e. a division of the government in Kiev).

[JamesT73J]

If that pfd is where it fell that looks like the mine/slagheap where the first debris was found.

[McGinty]

Given how blackened and burnt is the central wiper lower part of the windshield frame shown in the middle of the picture below, it is not surprising that a primary flight display module would have a shrapnel entry wound on the top.

The missile must have exploded right in front of the cockpit.

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...s/14717505025/

[igs942]

Reckon it's been moved. Looking at the ground it's on, wouldn't the unit be more distorted by the impact?

[OleOle]

It looks like locals having collected what they found in the surrounding fields. I would also guess it's close to point 1 in the google map embedded in this link:

Exclusif-Notre enquête sur les lieux du crash. Comment le MH17 a été abattu - Paris Match

[Caygill]

Originally Posted by wangdangdoodle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNXf_HncM20#t=189
Note that men shown in video referenced by Cappt are from Ukrainian Ministry of Emergency Situations (i.e. a division of the government in Kiev).

Thanks for pointing this out. I totally bought the story the first time I watched this video. Just another piece of evidence in the outragous propaganda war surrounding this tragedy.

[OleOle]

Originally Posted by McGinty

Given how blackened and burnt is the central wiper lower part of the windshield frame shown in the middle of the picture below, it is not surprising that a primary flight display module would have a shrapnel entry wound on the top.

Actually the fact that the central wiper part was not blasted away completely and has no significant shrapnel damage and the fact that the glass of the pfd wasn't blasted away either, tells something about where the vector of the shrapnel did *not* point to. And that seems to apply for the rest wrack too.IMHO.

[McGinty]

Yea, I was thinking the same thing - the penetration could have come from the top port side where the rest of the shrapnel marks seem to be, then the plane flew into the speeding heat-ball from the explosion causing the blackening.

[Machaca]

then the plane flew into the speeding heat-ball from the explosion causing the blackening.

You may wish to consider given SA-11 @ M4.5 vs 777 @ M0.8

[SAMPUBLIUS]

Tan box ??

oleole 964 said

Any idea on the beige box, that seems to have taken a shrapnel hit?

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/drugo...4_original.jpg

A close look seems to show a broken glass screen- the tan color ** could** mean it was one of the displays in the cockpit

It obviouslsy ahs been moved-picked up and piled with other stuff

What is interesting is the blackened hole in the top and what MIGHT be some shrapnel holes. IF so - it could be further evidence that the main hit was near the front/side of cockpit..

I'm sure the people on the scene now investigators will be able to establish JUST where it was and EXACTLY what it is ..

[OleOle]

I'm no photoshop guy:

source :https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJZ75iIIAA6Ry-.jpg:large

The window frame actually must be port center.

Thanks to @Wantion it can be seen on this image:


The center part is only very moderately peppered and still somehow attached to the flight deck.

Source: the Akkerman pictures

[mickjoebill]

Quote:
The video does not show anything being loaded and driven away.
Yes, it suggests it, a shot pulled from the hours of rushes to best match a line in the script.
Evidently they couldn't find a better shot.

Quote:You havn't watched the video, see 3:25. I would post a screen shot but I can't figure it out??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNXf_HncM20#t=189

Please read my post and watch the video again.
I'm not saying wreckage hasn't been loaded and driven away from the site, but the shot at 3:25 does not show it!

If a team of rescue workers, who could be personally identified, are being accused of wrong doing they deserve the benefit of doubt.

[Mudman]

Jeroen Akkermans has posted a new album... here

Some interesting pictures. Particularly these ones.
Looks like it come from the port side of the fuselage just under the S and Y in the Malaysia logo. Quite a ways back from the presumed detonation point of the missile and seems to show an fragment penetration from the inside out.

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...7645908125941/

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...7645908125941/

Also shows some heavy steel pieces, possible missile fragments?
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...7645908125941/

[toaddy]

From 3:24 to 3:27 it shows them taking something I can't identify (but not body parts) to a large van and the audio has the correspondent explaining they've been watching plane parts being driven away. But you're correct that video doesn't show the vehicle actually in motion.

The emergency workers themselves said in a few interviews that they too had to comply with the rebels demands pointing out that the rebels had all the guns and they had none. I believe I read the emergency workers were out of a local donetsk office in rebel held territory but part of the Ukraine government. If that's true seems like they'd have fled or been dead long ago. Lots of strange relationships.

[McGinty]

then the plane flew into the speeding heat-ball from the explosion causing the blackening.

You may wish to consider given SA-11 @ M4.5 vs 777 @ M0.8

Just trying to figure out why the paint is still on the shrapnel-peppered aircraft skin attached to the rearmost cockpit window frame, and the paint is totally burnt off the skin below the forward cockpit window frame. Seems contradictory to me somehow.

I can but assume something like an explosion some 50 feet ahead and to the upper left of the cockpit such that the shrapnel arrives a microsecond before the plane flies though the expanding cloud of burning gases that scorches the nose of the plane but not the sides.

[toaddy]

I can't find any details on the makeup of the sa-11 warhead other than weights, no frag sizes, expansion rates and patterns, etc. But in reading about HE Frag warheads in general it seems the larger more or less uniform and heavier frag pieces travel further at higher sustained velocities than much smaller pepper and small sized, lower mass projectiles. The speed of the small low mass bits falls off quickly.

The center window section that's burned seems to have a lot of much smaller penetration holes. I'm wondering if that could be bits of the warhead casing that are smaller than the main frag pieces. If this is the case it would suggest that the detonation would have had to be really close since the tiny bits still had enough speed and energy to make holes in the center window frames.

[gums]

and the beat goes on....

From my one close-up view of a SA-2 exploding about 1000 meters in front of me over Hanoi...............

The SA-2 had over twice the warhead explosive weight than this missile we're talking about now. The thing was tryng to hit the flight in front of me/us, but the jamming pods worked and it exploded just behind my buddies, and I/we flew thru the smoke a few seconds later. 20,000 feet or so.

The actual trajectory of the missile that brought down MA17 is still TBD, so I do not understand all the discussion. Who cares? Meanwhile, a video of a large aircraft that has an explosion and then a burning right wing has been removed from You Tube. It was alledgedly MA17.

( ??? ?????????? ????? ??-30 - YouTube) .

From my personal experience, this looks about like I would imagine. No instant confetti, but a fairly intact aircraft for over a minute until spars and/or other stuctural components melt or fail ( see the report on space shuttle Columbia). A pretty good fire on right wing root, but no big pieces falling off.

We only had a few planes that became unglued within seconds ( was there for a few tours over a 7 year span). Most of the B-52's that were hit in December of 1972 survived for many minutes. enuf war story stuff.....

The benefit of a good analysis of the impact angles and initial damage, then final structural failure modes can help the manufacturers build better planes in the future or improve the existing ones.

Nevertheless, it's interestng to see all the banter from folks that have never been shot at or hit by air defense weapons.

[flightleader]

OleOle, (#964)

That is one of the 6 identical displays (refer link below). Notice the lower right hand cover has a knob. Your picture shows the unit in its upright position. That means large piece of shrapnel hit it from the top. I am guessing it is the captain's PFD or ND.

https://www.google.com.my/search?q=b...2F%3B640%3B426