Pitch-up Upsets due to ILS False Glide Slope
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OK, I see what you are saying, but in reality, it seems to work. I havent heard of any disco's on capture.
If it is hot enough that you are 3.4 on a 3, it is probably NA anyways!
You are basically tricking the box with what it thinks are the altitudes. Due to the heat, it still thinks it is at 3, when it is at 3.4, so the 2.8 should be an issue. We can get a capture pretty far out depending
This is similar to the baro-vnav at extreme cold, coded path is 3.5 to actually have a 3.0.
If it is hot enough that you are 3.4 on a 3, it is probably NA anyways!
You are basically tricking the box with what it thinks are the altitudes. Due to the heat, it still thinks it is at 3, when it is at 3.4, so the 2.8 should be an issue. We can get a capture pretty far out depending
This is similar to the baro-vnav at extreme cold, coded path is 3.5 to actually have a 3.0.
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Low level, high nose, 97kts...
Interesting read. A low level stall in the NG isn't a great place to be, sounds like they avoided it by the skin on their teeth. One final slice of cheese left there! Thankfully the crew done a good job in recovering the situation.
Interesting read. A low level stall in the NG isn't a great place to be, sounds like they avoided it by the skin on their teeth. One final slice of cheese left there! Thankfully the crew done a good job in recovering the situation.
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Can't help but feel for the crew - they were put in a very sticky position by ATC, whose vectoring did not seem to take account of the wind and the need to maintain enough distance for final approach and GS capture. The animation shows clearly that the vectoring cut a huge segment off the normal path of the STAR, leaving the crew high and fast when they finally turned on to final approach. Why would ATC put an aircraft in that position, particularly in IMC?
Thank goodness for the stall warner and the crew responding properly to it!
Thank goodness for the stall warner and the crew responding properly to it!
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Can't help but feel for the crew
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Everyone's learned about false glideslopes in the benches, but I'm afraid the false G/S nor the automation was the problem here. Sure an Airbus won't give you a stick shaker in that position, but regardless of that, I think the plane reacted the way it's designed to react.
I don't think the crew of that plane views this event as anything different than their own mess, coupled with ATC. Somehow I also doubt that they don't know all these facts we're all regurgitating here. It was a cocked-up approach with some unexpected autopilot/autothrottle behavior. I don't fly the 737 so whether it should be unexpected or not is hard for me to say. However the result was that they binned it and put her down safely the next time around, job well done in my book.
We all make mistakes and missed approaches, they recovered theirs quickly and professionally. I don't understand why the Dutch Safety Board had to conduct a whole investigation to confirm what every pilot worth his license already knows about false glide slopes. Might have been more useful to remind the aviation community that the phrase 'request delaying vectors' is not somehow an admission of utter incompetence, but is to be used where appropriate.
Or am I missing something?
I don't think the crew of that plane views this event as anything different than their own mess, coupled with ATC. Somehow I also doubt that they don't know all these facts we're all regurgitating here. It was a cocked-up approach with some unexpected autopilot/autothrottle behavior. I don't fly the 737 so whether it should be unexpected or not is hard for me to say. However the result was that they binned it and put her down safely the next time around, job well done in my book.
We all make mistakes and missed approaches, they recovered theirs quickly and professionally. I don't understand why the Dutch Safety Board had to conduct a whole investigation to confirm what every pilot worth his license already knows about false glide slopes. Might have been more useful to remind the aviation community that the phrase 'request delaying vectors' is not somehow an admission of utter incompetence, but is to be used where appropriate.
Or am I missing something?
drfaust, you are correct. "request more track miles" or "unable" are good trigger words. Beyond this, busy feed-ins can be reliant upon slick pilot skill and, an incompatible feed-in by ATC might only reflect badly upon the aircrew unless a full investigation is carried out. Therefore, considerable pressure is placed upon aircrew to comply and "rescue" whatever they are given by ATC.
