BA460 heavy landing on March 12th
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done moderator
I am not usually a fan of moderation on these forums bit the comments on here about someone who took BA to court were very inappropriate and removal from these pages was the correct thing to do.
This is supposedly a professional forum, please think and post in a professional way.
This is supposedly a professional forum, please think and post in a professional way.
More than odd
Strake, your question went unanswered.
Is this a matter of PROFESSIONALS closing ranks?
The entire cabin crew books off crook.
But passengers are uninjured and BA says "no hard landing recorded".
I would suspect that the cabin crew may have been making a statement - possibly as some nebulous "final straw" was broken.
But we will probably never know the real nature of that straw.
I'd also be interested to know if any disciplinary action arose out of this, and I'm talking about the cabin crew, not the flight crew.
Is this a matter of PROFESSIONALS closing ranks?
The entire cabin crew books off crook.
But passengers are uninjured and BA says "no hard landing recorded".
I would suspect that the cabin crew may have been making a statement - possibly as some nebulous "final straw" was broken.
But we will probably never know the real nature of that straw.
I'd also be interested to know if any disciplinary action arose out of this, and I'm talking about the cabin crew, not the flight crew.
BA says "no hard landing recorded"
May not have any connection with the alleged incident, of course.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Scotand
Age: 68
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not high winds
The article actually says, "The witness said the female pilot apologised for the unusual landing and blamed the wind."
Wind shear? Does anyone know if thermals are a possibility?
Wind shear? Does anyone know if thermals are a possibility?
Last edited by mross; 5th May 2014 at 10:14. Reason: corrected spelling of 'know'
Cool as a moosp
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mostly Hong Kong
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kerdunker I think that "Firm" landings were taken out of the international industry definition a few years ago. It was interpreted as a weasel word seen as a way to ameliorate what was essentially a hard landing.
Print out your flight data report and if it is above 2.0g for a landing, it is hard. (Your aircraft manufacturer may vary).
I know, I have done one, 2.15 g and it was not pretty. My excuse was a wind that went from 20 head to 10 tail in 2 seconds, but that is not a real excuse. There are pilots out there who could have made a 1.3 landing out of that bag of nails.
Print out your flight data report and if it is above 2.0g for a landing, it is hard. (Your aircraft manufacturer may vary).
I know, I have done one, 2.15 g and it was not pretty. My excuse was a wind that went from 20 head to 10 tail in 2 seconds, but that is not a real excuse. There are pilots out there who could have made a 1.3 landing out of that bag of nails.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are some very strange contradictory statements relating to this case, whilst some posts here and elsewhere have a suspicious aroma, IMHO.
- Some cabin crew fold-down seats on some aircraft are not particularly well padded or shock-absorbent.
- All cabin crew reportedly unfit to continue duties. Yet no passengers are reported to have officially complained.
- The Captain, whether PF or PNF, reportedly apologised on the PA for the landing. Yet BA reportedly declared a 'normal landing'.
- The Captain reportedly blamed the wind, yet another source reports that the wind was light and virtually constant.
- There is a report of erratic altitude keeping during the descent. If true, why?
- Was a heavy landing check requested?
- Was an MOR filed?
- Are the CAA involved? There is a report of them being contacted, so where is their acknowledgement?
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a report of erratic altitude keeping during the descent. If true, why?
I personally will try harder next time I fly but I can't guarantee to succeed.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
woodpecker wrote:
There is a report of erratic altitude keeping during the descent. If true, why?
Why? Well I would agree it is very difficult to maintain a constant altitude during descent, my experiences show that the altitude reduces after the TOD.
I personally will try harder next time I fly but I can't guarantee to succeed.
A perfect example of my observation that 'some posts here and elsewhere have a suspicious aroma'.
There is a report of erratic altitude keeping during the descent. If true, why?
Why? Well I would agree it is very difficult to maintain a constant altitude during descent, my experiences show that the altitude reduces after the TOD.
I personally will try harder next time I fly but I can't guarantee to succeed.
A perfect example of my observation that 'some posts here and elsewhere have a suspicious aroma'.
British Airways Flight Attendant Found Dead - Possible Link To Rough Landing - SavvyStews.com
The aircraft dropped altitude during the routine final from 33,000 feet to 22,900 feet, but then back up to 27,500, a sudden change of 2,280 feet. Another drop in altitude happened at 26,000 feet to 13,600 where another bump in altitude took them to 18,700 feet. From there, the aircraft drops more altitude to 11,000 feet, then back up to 16,900. Now we see a pattern of bad weather combined with the pilot operating in a manner consistent with anxiety and what may have also been an attempt to stay above some turbulent conditions.
I repeat:
There are some very strange contradictory statements relating to this case, whilst some posts here and elsewhere have a suspicious aroma, IMHO.
- Some cabin crew fold-down seats on some aircraft are not particularly well padded or shock-absorbent.
- All cabin crew reportedly unfit to continue duties. Yet no passengers are reported to have officially complained.
- The Captain, whether PF or PNF, reportedly apologised on the PA for the landing. Yet BA reportedly declared a 'normal landing'.
- The Captain reportedly blamed the wind, yet another source reports that the wind was light and virtually constant.
- There is a report of erratic altitude keeping during the descent. If true, why?
- Was a heavy landing check requested?
- Was an MOR filed?
- Are the CAA involved? There is a report of them being contacted, so where is their acknowledgement?
Is it not about time the facts were established by the CAA and published? Dismissals on the grounds of 'Typical news reporting' or 'Cabin crew conspiracy' simply don't suffice.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South of Watford
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Utter Hogwash !
To base a story on Flight Aware data (which is second or third hand and supplied by Amateur Enthusiasts) shows the quality of the "Journalism".
Look at the "Data" from Flight Aware for 12th May.....I did not hear reports of near disasters on that flight despite the apparent anxiety that must have been experienced by the pilots and passengers
24780 feet per minute descent followed by 26100 fpm climb anyone ?
Flight Track Log ? BAW460 ? 12-May-2014 ? EGLL / LHR - LEMD / MAD ? FlightAware
To base a story on Flight Aware data (which is second or third hand and supplied by Amateur Enthusiasts) shows the quality of the "Journalism".
Look at the "Data" from Flight Aware for 12th May.....I did not hear reports of near disasters on that flight despite the apparent anxiety that must have been experienced by the pilots and passengers
24780 feet per minute descent followed by 26100 fpm climb anyone ?
Flight Track Log ? BAW460 ? 12-May-2014 ? EGLL / LHR - LEMD / MAD ? FlightAware
Erwin
If there is a need to establish the facts, then I am positive that the CAA will be on to it already. Just because you're not happy doesn't mean the regulator is going to get involved in every hyped-up media non-story.
There are normal landings which do not merit further reporting which are less smooth than others. A smooth touchdown isn't necessarily a good landing and equally a firm landing isn't necessarily a bad landing.
Is it not about time the facts were established by the CAA and published? Dismissals on the grounds of 'Typical news reporting' or 'Cabin crew conspiracy' simply don't suffice.
There are normal landings which do not merit further reporting which are less smooth than others. A smooth touchdown isn't necessarily a good landing and equally a firm landing isn't necessarily a bad landing.
Last edited by Megaton; 13th May 2014 at 07:41.
Can any qualified, professional pilot explain how the described flight profile could be termed a 'normal descent' and to give his/her opinion of the competence and mental state of the pilot executing such a descent?
BA, like many airlines, runs a FOQA program. All the data from that flight will have been processed and any exceedances or odd behaviour flagged up for closer inspection. This is then tied in with pilot reports (ASR, MOR, etc.) to give an overview of any event(s) and whether anything needs to be done. As an example, some years ago they were getting a lot of high ‘g’ events at Madrid and it turned out to be the runway surface profile that was causing them.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If there is a need to establish the facts, then I am positive that the CAA will be on to it already.
This is then tied in with pilot reports (ASR, MOR, etc.)
Is this a matter of PROFESSIONALS closing ranks?
Look at the "Data" from Flight Aware for 12th May.....
Do you have a CAA case reference number?
Do you have ASR and/or MOR reference numbers?
BA, like many airlines, runs a FOQA program. All the data from that flight will have been processed and any exceedances or odd behaviour flagged up for closer inspection.
I also have reason to believe that if you put one on a bit firmly but don't consider it was firm enough to warrant paperwork a few weeks later you may get a phone call about it........ certainly if the kit considers there was a hard landing there's no hiding place, it will not be ignored.......
Wiggy, You are absolutely right - I KNOW!!
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It truly beggars belief that someone can trust an unlicenced amateur radar tracking site that is notorious for its inaccuracy and a group of militant cabin crew and then accuse the entire pilot community, CAA, FOQA, the passengers involved and BA management of closing ranks . And we wonder why the media are so poor at reporting accurate news...