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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 28th Mar 2014, 11:24
  #8501 (permalink)  
 
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NoD, I agree with you but what airlines don't spend on implementing recommendations they will spend on increased insurance premiums. MH370 will most definitely force insurers to reinvent risk classification and charge accordingly. Nobody wants a long drawn out search.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 11:30
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time vs speed

So if MH370 flew faster than previously thought and the last (partial) ping was received at 08:11 then I would imagine the flight would've traveled a longer distance (possibly further south). What am I not getting right?
That this change is only related to its early flight before heading South? (as specified on official press release)
Timeline doesn't change, it seems that its flight profile is simply readjusted to a different flight dataset.

Last edited by takata; 28th Mar 2014 at 15:06.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 11:30
  #8503 (permalink)  
 
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Controlled ditching in the Indian Ocean ?

@ hamster3null, re possible mismatching 'ping' data shortly before impact ?

9M-MRO : wasn't it a 777-200ER MTOW 297,500 kg ? ... hence, equipped with a high-lift wing ?! ... assuming headwind 25 kts, all its active high-lift surfaces extended, assuming CoG had been shifted markedly aftwards before ditching, reserve fuels jettisoned as well (except tail-tank, if available ??), assuming "surface effect" in near-water approach and expert handling by pilot (whomever that was at that time), the true speed upon water contact could have slowed down enough for the aircraft to successfully survive a ditch ?

Any PPRuNe 777 driver to estimate final ditching 'minimum conceivable speed' ?
Is the result compatible with integrity of aircraft structure/pilot survival ?

Then, seek if last 'ping' discrepancies could be interpreted as an approach + ditching manoeuvre going on at end-of-flight somewhere in the Indian Ocean ? Manual final VFR conditions ?

We are exploring likeliness of a successfully executed RDV for pilot pick-up by some sub-marine at some pre-agreed set of co-ordinates fed into the FMS ?

Last edited by Frequent Traveller; 28th Mar 2014 at 11:41.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 11:31
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I'm assuming the final half ping will be as a result of the plane ending its time in the air...

so if the plane covered less miles what could of been burning up the fuel quicker??

travelling at high speed at a low altitude ?

to be honest it is hard to know anything with a high degree of conviction with so many details being withheld....

hopefully the NZ Orion MIGHT have seen something ( although we have had false leads before...)
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 11:47
  #8505 (permalink)  
 
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Helicopters

I've searched for these points but with no joy. At risk of stating the obvious, it strikes me that the on-board helicopters (6 involved?) would have a better vantage point than the ships and SAR aircraft:
- they can hover to distinguish between a white horse and debris
- they can operate higher than the ships but lower than the other aircraft
So:
Q1 have there been any reports or video of them getting airborne yet to check out the "credible" sitings, eg from the Aussie and NZ P3s ?
Q2 does anyone know the range of said helicopters so they could fly out and back, ahead of the ships now converging on the new search area, and get to the point of the latest debris sighting sooner rather than later ?
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 11:57
  #8506 (permalink)  
 
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Shipborne helicopters are rarely considered as an aircraft in their own right. They are normally considered to be a part of the ship's assets - like radar, sonar etc
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 11:58
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Ping Data

.....until debris is found to confirm the straight line flight suspected , the ping data may still support the possiblilty that the plane was flying large orbits , about 50 minutes each , south of the equator and out of sight of land , say south of Indonesia...????.....
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 12:02
  #8508 (permalink)  
 
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The higher speed suggests to me that the crew wound the speed up during a rapid descent after a catastrophic failure, as per standard Boeing procedure.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 12:04
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Constant heading: magnetic versus gyro

There have been many comments on this site about MH370 flying on a constant heading during its last hours. All but one of these comments suggested it was a constant magnetic heading. Question: under what circumstances would a 777 fly on a constant gyro heading? Second question: would the rate of gyro drift (degrees per hour) remain constant?
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 12:09
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"New credible evidence"... Radar data from Jindalee? New plot would be significantly closer to it...
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 12:16
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Originally Posted by NigelOnDraft
NB they are not searching where they think it crashed. They will search taking where they think it crashed, plus 20 days of appropriate drift. No idea of the details, but 1K of drift would now be ~500NM.
Thanks Nigel, wouldn't it be the case though that they need to search at both the likely impact point (for the FDR and larger chunks of sunken debris), as well as the latest search zone for floating debris?
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 12:23
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Originally Posted by win_faa
with all the technology having been put on this aircraft...radio vhf/hf, locator beacons, satcom, gps, transponder...even satellite in space dont give much info... all of these designed to locate an aircraft in flight ...not a single one of these technology is able to help pinpoint the exact location of the final resting place of this aircraft on the ground

this tragic event has only proven one thing....aircraft technology haven't really improved much in terms of locating a lost aircraft
That's actually not true - the technology is there but nobody is prepared to pay for it.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 12:54
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5 of 10 planes spotted multiple images of various colours and a buoy? (from sky news)
some pictures might start to surface
NZ plane spotted light or white objects
Aus plane went to location of NZ plane and spotted blue and grey rectangular objects
Another Aus plane spotted objects in a location 500km away

From memory of flying on a couple of MH 777s early last year is the plane white on top half and grey on the bottom half ?

Last edited by weebobby; 28th Mar 2014 at 13:07.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 13:04
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AMSA LATEST MEDIA RELEASE

"28th March, 2014: 1115(AEDT)

Search operation for Malaysia Airlines aircraft: Update 25

Five aircraft spotted multiple objects of various colours during Friday’s search for the missing Malaysian
Airlines flight MH370.

Search activities have now concluded. A total of 256,000 square kilometres was searched.

Photographic imagery of the objects was captured and will be assessed overnight.

The objects cannot be verified or discounted as being from MH370 until they are relocated and
recovered by ships.

A Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P3 Orion reported sighting a number of objects white or light in
colour and a fishing buoy.

A Royal Australian Air Force P3 Orion relocated the objects detected by the RNZAF Orion and reported
it had seen two blue/grey rectangular objects floating in the ocean.

A second RAAF P3 Orion spotted various objects of various colours in a separate part of the search area
about 546 kilometres away.

A total of ten planes were tasked by AMSA in today’s search and all have now departed the search area.

AMSA has tasked Chinese Maritime Administration patrol ship, Haixun 01, which is in the search area
and will be in a position to relocate the objects on Saturday.

Friday’s search area was shifted north after international air crash investigators in Malaysia provided the
latest credible lead available to AMSA.

This was on the advice of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB).

Weather conditions in the area are expected to be reasonable for searching on Saturday."
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 13:06
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"Friday’s search area was shifted north after international air crash investigators in Malaysia provided the
latest credible lead available to AMSA.

This was on the advice of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB)."


Someone is cross checking
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 13:06
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Originally Posted by Golf-Mike-Mike
Thanks Nigel, wouldn't it be the case though that they need to search at both the likely impact point (for the FDR and larger chunks of sunken debris), as well as the latest search zone for floating debris?
There is no point in aircraft searching for the crash point as they cannot see a sunken fuselage. I would expect that the towed sonar array will be dragged to where the impact point is expected to be as that will need to get searching where the DFDR/CVR ULBs may be making their last signals.

So there are in fact two different searches: a surface search to confirm the crash point and a subsurface search to find the ULBs before they go quiet. The surface search provides information that should narrow down the subsurface search.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 13:08
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BBC news has just said that a Helicopter is on it's way to work off the deck of one of the vessels - possibly HMAS Success which has a helipad.
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 13:09
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The new debris sightings look promising. An RAAF Orion backed up the sightings by the NZAF Orion.
Another RAAF Orion spotted more coloured debris around 546 km away from the NZAF Orion sighting position.
Pictures will be assessed overnight, and the Haixun 01 will move into the position of todays sightings to try and get confirmation of wreckage, tomorrow.
Weather is reported as "reasonable".

The Japanese satellite pics picked up two coloured objects in this area, one around 8M x 4M.

http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/documen...a_Update25.pdf

In the background of the Skynews video, there's a chopper being unloaded from a cargo 'plane. It's hard to see the detail.

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories...=Top%20Stories
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 13:12
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The RNZAF landed just over an hour ago (based on AMSA's tweet time)



"BBC news has just said that a Helicopter is on it's way to work off the deck of one of the vessels - possibly HMAS Success which has a helipad."

It's it is almost dark there now ????
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Old 28th Mar 2014, 13:20
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500N - Currently 2118HRS local time, sunset is 1816HRS, and I can assure you, the place is a hive of activity, and work is going on around the clock.

I can't see the chopper leaving until tomorrow, they've got a bit of work in front of them before it's "work-ready", I'd say.
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