Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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I see some comments about 1 v 2 satellites. When CNN started drawing two boxes a few days ago, I assumed they had reads from two satellites. Now that they've released the single arc picture, it makes sense why. Even if the plane was in range of two Inmarsat satellites, it doesn't mean both recorded the ping registration.
Think of that ping like your cell phone. Even if you hit 3 towers, the only one that will record your checkin is the one that holds your registration at that moment. It's very possible that, like your cell phone, the SATCOM decides which sat is the right sat to register with, and it will make that clear in it's ping. Then, the other one knows to disregard it.
Can't answer Q's right away since I'm driving.
I'm really curious as to why Inmarsat hasn't released the arcs for the other 5 pings. Couldn't hurt anything.
Think of that ping like your cell phone. Even if you hit 3 towers, the only one that will record your checkin is the one that holds your registration at that moment. It's very possible that, like your cell phone, the SATCOM decides which sat is the right sat to register with, and it will make that clear in it's ping. Then, the other one knows to disregard it.
Can't answer Q's right away since I'm driving.
I'm really curious as to why Inmarsat hasn't released the arcs for the other 5 pings. Couldn't hurt anything.
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The future of ELT and tracking
Thinking of the future, what can be done about FDR/CVR? Maybe there should be several devices, synched, one fixed as at present and two ejected by force - compressed gas, spring, or a small pyrotechnic charge? The technology is off the shelf and has been for decades in 'cluster bomb' systems which survive incredibly high forces. One to my knowledge survives > 100,000g (sic). We cannot accept the present designs as fit for purpose.
Firstly let me say I am not a pilot, however there are some common-sense options that we can all see, and have been suggested before.
I have been for a long time advocating a live video feed of the cockpit and tailcam video streaming to a remote black box - something like Skype . It can be done today. Many airlines host internet facilities.
Failing this we should have an on - all - the -time ELT tracking system - satellite based. When it stops, we know there is a problem, and any time the signal is lost it should be the subject of an immediate investigation and intercept by the closest air force.
Also, mandate the immediate notification of loss of online tracking of any aircraft to the relevant military and handover to military radar tracking for resolution.
Mandate the carrying on person of a satellite tracking device on the pilots and flight crew.
Many ideas, all been said before, it is upto the ariline industry to step up to the plate and start giving us passengers some assuarance that they can take better care of us.
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lakedude
While I agree 100% with everything else you said, it needs to be pointed out Fuel Levels would indicate it likely touched down extremely close to the last ping. (if it were not already grounded)
The plane being in the air at 8:11 itself is already pushing what they would have been able to do (barring the extremely unlikely landing/refuel option, of course)
Y'all might be talking about 2 different things. One thing is where the plane was @ 8:11 which is very near the arc. The other thing is the final resting place of the plane which could be hundreds of miles away from the arc...
The plane being in the air at 8:11 itself is already pushing what they would have been able to do (barring the extremely unlikely landing/refuel option, of course)
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nitpicker.
Your point 3, "under inflated wheels will not catch fire" is not quite true.
Research the DC8 fire in Jeddah in 1991 operted by a Canadian company,National? on behalf of Nigerian Airways.
Cause of fire and subsequent loss of aircraft, under inflated tyre(s).
Wunwing
Your point 3, "under inflated wheels will not catch fire" is not quite true.
Research the DC8 fire in Jeddah in 1991 operted by a Canadian company,National? on behalf of Nigerian Airways.
Cause of fire and subsequent loss of aircraft, under inflated tyre(s).
Wunwing
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Re: Electronics bay
LD7, perhaps flip your question around and ask 'can you get out of the electronics bay in flight?'
Under the scenario that some third party had access to this area in order to shut down comms, who's to say they weren't occupying the avionics compartment prior to pax boarding?
Under the scenario that some third party had access to this area in order to shut down comms, who's to say they weren't occupying the avionics compartment prior to pax boarding?
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I see some comments about 1 v 2 satellites. When CNN started drawing two boxes a few days ago, I assumed they had reads from two satellites. Now that they've released the single arc picture, it makes sense why. Even if the plane was in range of two Inmarsat satellites, it doesn't mean both recorded the ping registration.
Think of that ping like your cell phone. Even if you hit 3 towers, the only one that will record your checkin is the one that holds your registration at that moment. It's very possible that, like your cell phone, the SATCOM decides which sat is the right sat to register with, and it will make that clear in it's ping. Then, the other one knows to disregard it.
Can't answer Q's right away since I'm driving.
I'm really curious as to why Inmarsat hasn't released the arcs for the other 5 pings. Couldn't hurt anything.
Think of that ping like your cell phone. Even if you hit 3 towers, the only one that will record your checkin is the one that holds your registration at that moment. It's very possible that, like your cell phone, the SATCOM decides which sat is the right sat to register with, and it will make that clear in it's ping. Then, the other one knows to disregard it.
Can't answer Q's right away since I'm driving.
I'm really curious as to why Inmarsat hasn't released the arcs for the other 5 pings. Couldn't hurt anything.
I doubt if the decision to release the data from the other earlier pings is now int he hands of inmarsat.
Commercial chips are mostly designed and tested from 0 to 70 C. Industrial chips go to wider ranges, sometimes -40 to +105 C, sometimes more. Military/Aerospace spec are generally qualified from -55 to +125 C and are warehoused in a secure cage separately from commercial and industrial quality chips, with documentation attached to prove their having been tested. Complete systems are temperature cycled between the limits while cycling the power supply between its limits. I believe avionics uses mil/aerospace qual chips, therefore should not be a problem at -40. That's why avionics is so expensive.
A similar situation exists on a Hawker 800, where all sorts of avionics are crammed into a space in the upper portion of the nose gear wheel well. Again, this compartment is completely unheated and unpressurized, and is also exposed to wind blast and moisture anytime the nose gear is deployed.
The point being that the majority of commercial avionics systems are designed to operate perfectly well over a very broad range of environmental conditions, including prolonged exposure to extreme cold.
Thread Starter
Could any B777 drivers explain what the problems are with flying at FL45 with an aircraft configured and loaded as MH370 was?
Is it simply that you are much closer to coffin corner?
Is it simply that you are much closer to coffin corner?
The KQ507 crash in Cameroun pretty much buried itself in mud and there was very little debris at ground level making discovery and recovery very difficult.
In very shallow water over mud, yes OK.
With 50 m or more of water over mud. Nope. The plane ail fragment if it hits the water at high speed. Some of these pieces will be small with little momentum. Some won't be very aerodynamic (? hydrodynamic). Can you see a detached aileron flying through this much water and digging itself into the mud.
Even a high velocity (supersonic) bullet will travel a short distance, rapidly decelerate due to deformity and tumbling, and then slowly sick to the bottom. A bullet has much greater density, (and therefore greater momentum relative to surface area) than a plane. But if you fired a bullet into mud, sure it will go below the surface.
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Inmarsat
I'm really curious as to why Inmarsat hasn't released the arcs for the other 5 pings. Couldn't hurt anything.
That said, the previous ping plots won't be released until it's in someone's interest to do so. It's probably not Inmarsat's call.
But some people know where those pings were, and you can bet their surveillance satellites are burning some fuel to take a close look.
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I'm away from my PC, so can't back run the data, but did anyone consider the oil rig worker might have seen an iridium flare? Duration about right, but I'm not able to check the angles.
He seems a pretty savvy guy, so I doubt he is that easily fooled.
He seems a pretty savvy guy, so I doubt he is that easily fooled.
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Lost in Saigon
That's kind of the whole point of ACARS - to report issues. If a fire affected a single system somewhere, ACARS would have reported it.
See, for example, the 25 automatic messages sent from AF447's ACARS system during its 4 minutes of catastrophic issues
ACARS is not all knowing. If there is un-annuciated fire, ACARS will not know about it and will not report it.
How could it?
How could it?
See, for example, the 25 automatic messages sent from AF447's ACARS system during its 4 minutes of catastrophic issues
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Regarding under inflated tires, they can certainly cause a fire. I had a tire burst at v1 in a biz jet, which was duly aborted. But if the same tire is retracted, it becomes a ticking time bomb
Nigeria Airways Flight 2120 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nigeria Airways Flight 2120 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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No one has come up with authoritative reference for the "preprogrammed turn" that seems to clearly indicate human deliberate action, so I have spent some hours researching. I refer to "news" comments such as CNN:
"Adding to the intrigue, ABC News reported that the dramatic left turn was preprogrammed into the plane's navigation computer. It's a task that would have required extensive piloting experience."
While Foxnews, and others including some posters here, join CNN in that reference, extensive searching suggests it all stems from ABC reporter David Kerley's comment on March 16, ABC ThisWeek, transcript quote:
"KERLEY: The prime minister confirming the report by ABC News the communications gear was deliberately shut down. Now we have learned from a source close to the investigation that whoever was controlling the plane preprogrammed that sharp left turn right off of the flight path, convincing investigators that someone was in control of the jetliner, either a rogue pilot or a hijackers."
No more detail or sourcing information for the above has shown up anywhere I could find. It would be nice if this could be established as fact as it rules both in and out many paths of logic. For now, I personally am tempted to treat it as non-credible, and reluctantly lower my own bias towards an obvious human deliberate cause (a change which started with the ACARS shutting "correction" today from the MH CEO.)
"Adding to the intrigue, ABC News reported that the dramatic left turn was preprogrammed into the plane's navigation computer. It's a task that would have required extensive piloting experience."
While Foxnews, and others including some posters here, join CNN in that reference, extensive searching suggests it all stems from ABC reporter David Kerley's comment on March 16, ABC ThisWeek, transcript quote:
"KERLEY: The prime minister confirming the report by ABC News the communications gear was deliberately shut down. Now we have learned from a source close to the investigation that whoever was controlling the plane preprogrammed that sharp left turn right off of the flight path, convincing investigators that someone was in control of the jetliner, either a rogue pilot or a hijackers."
No more detail or sourcing information for the above has shown up anywhere I could find. It would be nice if this could be established as fact as it rules both in and out many paths of logic. For now, I personally am tempted to treat it as non-credible, and reluctantly lower my own bias towards an obvious human deliberate cause (a change which started with the ACARS shutting "correction" today from the MH CEO.)
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r/t
As an air traffic controller of 33 years experience (retired) I have already posted:
The use of Goodnight etc, although non ICAO standard phraseology, is the norm.
Can we have no more posts querying the use of it.
It has no relevance.
The use of Goodnight etc, although non ICAO standard phraseology, is the norm.
Can we have no more posts querying the use of it.
It has no relevance.