Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Jet fuel is a very different cut from ship diesel fuel.
Ship diesel is a much lower volatile fraction, needing preheaters etc to burn in enormous 2 stroke diesels the size of a house. At jet altitude temperatures, ship diesel fuel is solid, not liquid.
Ship diesel is a much lower volatile fraction, needing preheaters etc to burn in enormous 2 stroke diesels the size of a house. At jet altitude temperatures, ship diesel fuel is solid, not liquid.
xcitation,
Undoubtedly, number 3. If they took action, meaning intercepted and shot the plane down, there'd be plenty of evidence and no evidence of hours of flight. I'm also, baed on years of military experience, somewhat cynical about military capability everyone assumes exists.
GF
Undoubtedly, number 3. If they took action, meaning intercepted and shot the plane down, there'd be plenty of evidence and no evidence of hours of flight. I'm also, baed on years of military experience, somewhat cynical about military capability everyone assumes exists.
GF
The Inmarsat constellation has been upgraded over the last 12 months...
By now pretty much every spook in the Sahara knows not to use Inmarsat or Thuraya satphones for communications, as very soon after the first ringtone they will receive an air delivered parcel courtesy Uncle Sam from one of those Predators circling somewhere overhead... The In Amenas attack was planned and executed using old cellphones and local scratchcards for this reason.
So yes, signal location may be traced to within a few metre accuracy.
If this technology will actually help find the missing aircraft, it will be one of the rare proven benefits gained from the hundreds of billions spent post 9/11 on clandestine surveillance.
I doubt if all the pax were duped. I usually carry a hand held satnav which works fine by a window seat. Surely there must have been a few awake by the window seats could see that the a/c had changed course dramatically and it being a half moon that night would cast changing shadows on the wing. Therefore it would seem to me that intervention by the pax is highly likely at the later end.
edit: thanks to threemiles for recalibrating me on the above.
Edit: For
Originally Posted by GF
I'm also, based on years of military experience, somewhat cynical about military capability everyone assumes exists.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 14th Mar 2014 at 17:13.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vermont
Age: 70
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
xcitation
There appears to be a high probability of a 4+ hours flight in a "9-11" transponders off situation. In the US/Euro they have scrambled the interceptors for far less than this incident. How do we reconcile a hijack style flight with zero response from the military?
1. it was detected, ignored, no action taken and the military kept quiet.
2. it was detected, action was taken and military kept quiet.
3. it was not detected. The military genuinely had no awareness, military telling the truth. Therefore the region has no effective air defense monitoring.
1. it was detected, ignored, no action taken and the military kept quiet.
2. it was detected, action was taken and military kept quiet.
3. it was not detected. The military genuinely had no awareness, military telling the truth. Therefore the region has no effective air defense monitoring.
So the question is, would other countries respond similarly.
Since then it's clear the US has known since last Sat. and has been very quiet. Very artful language coming out of Malaysia as well ("can't confirm definitively...")
Why isn't the press asking other obvious countries what they did pick up?
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: froggylandia
Age: 74
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S. of Japan E of Philippines
Email from a friend with more than 40 yrs of airline stick time in Boeings + Airbuses + other birds as well. Also accident investigator. My translation from another language:
"Hypoxia is not to be neglected....Seems now confirmed that ACARS pinged for more than 4 hrs... one could reasonably imagine that the plane flew until fuel starvation... believe search area should be S. of Japan, East of Philippines. (FYI: if XDR code change is halted in mid-operationm, the transponder blocks and is inop.)
"Hypoxia is not to be neglected....Seems now confirmed that ACARS pinged for more than 4 hrs... one could reasonably imagine that the plane flew until fuel starvation... believe search area should be S. of Japan, East of Philippines. (FYI: if XDR code change is halted in mid-operationm, the transponder blocks and is inop.)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: US
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rog @14th Mar 2014, 11:43:
You may persist with the idea that this is SAR only, but that is a semantic distinction only. I'll guarantee that Malaysian authorities believe and are behaving as if this is an investigation.
If the pilot's home simulator hasn't been looked-at, it's only because the authorities don't at the moment believe it to be relevant. (And at the moment I don't believe it to be relevant.)
You may persist with the idea that this is SAR only, but that is a semantic distinction only. I'll guarantee that Malaysian authorities believe and are behaving as if this is an investigation.
If the pilot's home simulator hasn't been looked-at, it's only because the authorities don't at the moment believe it to be relevant. (And at the moment I don't believe it to be relevant.)
Last edited by BobT; 14th Mar 2014 at 17:12.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 30,262 smoots S.S.W. of London
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Tracking Planes' – BBC Inside Science
On Thursday 13th March, the first interview in BBC's 'Inside Science' programme on Radio 4 was with Dr Matt Greaves, a Lecturer in Accident Investigation at Cranfield University, UK. The subject was "Tracking Planes" and provides a good overall assessment of what is and is not currently available. It's only 5 minutes long and is available as a podcast too.
BBC Radio 4 - Inside Science, Tracking planes; Peer review; Mega-virus; Astronaut
BBC Radio 4 - Inside Science, Tracking planes; Peer review; Mega-virus; Astronaut
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: America
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps this has been discussed prior; if so my apologies. But I'm still hearing that the Malaysians are saying they'll enter the Captain's home "if necessary".
As a retired Captain I'm not casting aspersion, but with so little known here and so many lives involved, I would think that the appropriate authorities would have searched his home long ago - to include the computer(s) used to run his home simulator.
When you're totally responsible for hundreds of lives you give up a certain amount of privacy in a case such as this. It just goes with the job.
Despite cultural politeness, respect, and abhorrence for loss of face, the circumstances demand that everything possible needs to be examined ASAP.
As a retired Captain I'm not casting aspersion, but with so little known here and so many lives involved, I would think that the appropriate authorities would have searched his home long ago - to include the computer(s) used to run his home simulator.
When you're totally responsible for hundreds of lives you give up a certain amount of privacy in a case such as this. It just goes with the job.
Despite cultural politeness, respect, and abhorrence for loss of face, the circumstances demand that everything possible needs to be examined ASAP.
it is quite sad that a popular senior pilot with a passion and love of his job is being character assassinated on here - not cricket guys sorry
he's one of you
i can see why the witch hunt though as sadly there have been a number of pilot induced crashes with modern jets and turbo props in recent years
i do not think the MAS crew are implicated with what we (don't) know so far
all we do know is that it is a ruddy nightmare
he's one of you
i can see why the witch hunt though as sadly there have been a number of pilot induced crashes with modern jets and turbo props in recent years
i do not think the MAS crew are implicated with what we (don't) know so far
all we do know is that it is a ruddy nightmare
Lonewolf,
I posted it a few pages earlier but probably got lost in the backscatter:
Local Moonset in KL was 00:40am, coinciding with takeoff time. As the aircraft was initially eastbound, it is safe to say the entire flight was conducted in darkness, only stars could have provided some directional info to the initiated.
I posted it a few pages earlier but probably got lost in the backscatter:
Local Moonset in KL was 00:40am, coinciding with takeoff time. As the aircraft was initially eastbound, it is safe to say the entire flight was conducted in darkness, only stars could have provided some directional info to the initiated.
My opinion is that the Captain is very much a 'professional'. However..
So was the Captain crashing in Buffalo a perfectly good A/C.
So was the Captain crashing a perfectly good A/C in AMS (except a little fault with a RA)
So was the Asiana captain crashing a T7 in SFO....
etc etc
Last edited by testpanel; 14th Mar 2014 at 17:16. Reason: forgot to paste....
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course the homes of both pilots should be searched for any clues. At the moment there isn't anything to go on. Why hasn't it been done already?
It is not to cast aspersions on the flight crew, but solely to eliminate them from blame.
Who knows, the home flight simulator of the Captain may show he practised flying a route to the Andaman Islands or some other manoeuvre?
It is not to cast aspersions on the flight crew, but solely to eliminate them from blame.
Who knows, the home flight simulator of the Captain may show he practised flying a route to the Andaman Islands or some other manoeuvre?
The Malaysians are not obliged to tell the world every little thing they are doing.
Edit:
Sorry, I missed seeing this bit.
Police would search the pilot's home if necessary
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 14th Mar 2014 at 19:47.
searching crew homes - good grief
as i said before there is NO single country handling an aircraft accident investigation nor is flight MH370 a criminal investigation
you all harp on about this should be done that should be down - his home should be searched -
but you cannot legally do that until such measures are in force....
imagine in the UK if those actions were taken by the CAA or an airline?
the AAIB would not even be on the case yet...
you are all getting hysterical
even in Malaysia a protocol will be followed in due course - wait and see
you all harp on about this should be done that should be down - his home should be searched -
but you cannot legally do that until such measures are in force....
imagine in the UK if those actions were taken by the CAA or an airline?
the AAIB would not even be on the case yet...
you are all getting hysterical
even in Malaysia a protocol will be followed in due course - wait and see
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Age: 33
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've used Inmarsat in the marine environment.
The antenna needs to be kept "pointing" at the satellite during use.
to do this, the Inmarsat antenna contains a GPS receiver/antenna - if it knows where it is, and it knows where the satellite is, it can keep the antenna pointed at the satellite.
On a boat, the antenna is also stabilized, to account for the roll and yaw of the boat, but maybe this isn't needed on an aircraft.
The antenna needs to be kept "pointing" at the satellite during use.
to do this, the Inmarsat antenna contains a GPS receiver/antenna - if it knows where it is, and it knows where the satellite is, it can keep the antenna pointed at the satellite.
On a boat, the antenna is also stabilized, to account for the roll and yaw of the boat, but maybe this isn't needed on an aircraft.
You may persist with the idea that this is SAR only, but that is a semantic distinction only
SAR is usually under the command and responsibility of the organization owning the principal SAR assets used (in this case primarily Malaysian armed forces).
Air accident investigation is conducted by the responsible (and supposedly independent) transportation accident investigation body, and a part of this investigation is to assess the quality of SAR activities. It is launched immediately after an accident becomes known (and may in fact run parallel to SAR).
A criminal investigation is run by the judicial system, triggered by the 'discovery' of a criminal act.
Not quite semantics here...
Potentially the biggest dilemma if the aircraft is not found is whether this should be treated as an accident investigation or criminal investigation. Depending on the path chosen, some evidence may be easier to gather, but some more difficult. (Eg. in a criminal investigation any request for evidence from another country must pass through judicial and diplomatic channels, while in an air accident investigation various foreign investigation bodies may be invited to form a part of the investigation team).
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 67
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
If France is take as reference country .. check the AF447 case
As soon the disparition was know .. a criminal investigation was launched
as i said before there is NO single country handling an aircraft accident investigation nor is flight MH370 a criminal investigation
As soon the disparition was know .. a criminal investigation was launched
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 40 North 75 West
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coincidences and strangeness continues....
5.5 magnitude quake strikes in sea off Andaman and Nicobar Islands - CNN.com
5.5 magnitude quake strikes in sea off Andaman and Nicobar Islands - CNN.com