Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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What if?
What if MH370 wanted to perform an emergency landing for whatever reason. Close to IGARI point the crew entered a possible airport to land in their FMS which could be VVCT CAN THO with VOR "TRN", because this one has a 3000m runway which is close to the intended route ahead. But, there is another "TRN" VOR closer by, guess where: TRANG VOR close to the Andaman sea. The crew under severe stress executes the top TRN (closest by) in the FMS and the plane turns immediately to that point. Could this explain the hard left turn after IGARI point towards the Andaman sea?
"KUALA LUMPUR: The international search for a missing Malaysian airliner has been expanded into the Andaman Sea, hundreds of kilometres (miles) to the northwest of the original search radius, an official said Wednesday."
"KUALA LUMPUR: The international search for a missing Malaysian airliner has been expanded into the Andaman Sea, hundreds of kilometres (miles) to the northwest of the original search radius, an official said Wednesday."
Last edited by Tarzanboy; 12th Mar 2014 at 04:59. Reason: added image
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AIMS
The lack of communication etc etc from MH370 is strange. Having worked as ground maintenance on 777's for 15 yrs or so, I can only think that something catastrophic happened to power supply, and L and R AIMS has shut down, without AIMS, pretty much all communication is lost including transponder, and most displays apart from standby instruments will fail..just a thought..guess time will tell..just pray for the passengers and crew.
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10 countries in the SAR operations - Malaysia, Vietnam, U.S., China, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Phillipines, Taiwan, and Indonesia.
The array of shipping and aircraft in the search is mind-boggling and must be approaching the largest joint SAR force ever assembled in recent years.
BBC News - Malaysia Airlines: How is the search being carried out?
The array of shipping and aircraft in the search is mind-boggling and must be approaching the largest joint SAR force ever assembled in recent years.
BBC News - Malaysia Airlines: How is the search being carried out?
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10 countries in the SAR operations - Malaysia, Vietnam, U.S., China, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Phillipines, Taiwan, and Indonesia.
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If indeed the transponder failed, there were comms problem and it was returning or preparing for an approach for return. How is it possible that sophisticated air force like RMAF failed to detect the plane for over 1 hour and flag it as possible incursion? 
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Neogen - I think that's what the Malaysians are trying to hide. An embarrassment of major proportions.
A radar operator sighted an unknown radar return, pointed it out to a "chief" - and it was dismissed as a flock of birds.
Either that - or the "chief" was sound asleep at home, and it was common knowledge he didn't like to be awakened, only to find a flock of birds being reported as an "intrusion".
A radar operator sighted an unknown radar return, pointed it out to a "chief" - and it was dismissed as a flock of birds.
Either that - or the "chief" was sound asleep at home, and it was common knowledge he didn't like to be awakened, only to find a flock of birds being reported as an "intrusion".
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Dual TRN FMS waypoints...
I just want to say that Tarzanboy's theory is quite an interesting one upon further reflection. What are the odds that there is a perfectly suitable emergency diversion straight ahead with identifier "TRN", plus another location with identifier "TRN" back near the Andaman sea where the aircraft seems to have flown to instead for no apparent reason?
I must admit, it seems like an easy mistake to select the wrong TRN on the display when they would both be roughly the same distance from the place of last contact.
I must admit, it seems like an easy mistake to select the wrong TRN on the display when they would both be roughly the same distance from the place of last contact.
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Onetrack - or they sighted the radar return, informed the chief, RMAF scrambled the jet and overzealous RMAF .....
One fact for sure: Malaysian officials have given ambiguous, inaccurate and at times directly contradictory information since the aircraft's disappearance.
One fact for sure: Malaysian officials have given ambiguous, inaccurate and at times directly contradictory information since the aircraft's disappearance.
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@DWS posted:
Here is the info on this topic:
Special Conditions: Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes; Aircraft Electronic System Security Protection From Unauthorized Internal Access
ITS now being reported on FOX ( kelley files ) - that 777- BA has had had a request or notice in for change to FBW computer / reporting systems for security reasons- that there IS a common ( wired) link somehow between some of the FBW reporting systems and the inflight passenger entertainment systems- and possibly subject to hacking !
Dont know if this report is factual- but am posting it here to give some people with access to FAA paperwork, etc a chance to look it up.
And hopefully to give the moderators a chance to standby for a flood of
"it was hacked and is now in area 51 .... or somewhere-"
In any case- some factual data on this issue would be appreciated by many on this forum-
Dont know if this report is factual- but am posting it here to give some people with access to FAA paperwork, etc a chance to look it up.
And hopefully to give the moderators a chance to standby for a flood of
"it was hacked and is now in area 51 .... or somewhere-"
In any case- some factual data on this issue would be appreciated by many on this forum-
Special Conditions: Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes; Aircraft Electronic System Security Protection From Unauthorized Internal Access
Last edited by 220mph; 12th Mar 2014 at 06:45.
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India has joined search
According to Astro Awani
NEW DELHI: Ships of the Indian Navy that are on patrol in the Straits of Malacca are participating in the search and rescue (SAR) operations for the Malaysia Airlines (MAS) MH370 which went missing last Saturday.
The Indian Navy's satellite Rukmini or GSAT-7 has also been activated to pick up any clue that may lead investigators to the missing aircraft, Indian Media reported.
NEW DELHI: Ships of the Indian Navy that are on patrol in the Straits of Malacca are participating in the search and rescue (SAR) operations for the Malaysia Airlines (MAS) MH370 which went missing last Saturday.
The Indian Navy's satellite Rukmini or GSAT-7 has also been activated to pick up any clue that may lead investigators to the missing aircraft, Indian Media reported.
Someone has done something really bad in Malaysia associate with this disaster because there's some royal butt covering going on here..
At some point (probably sometime yesterday) you start loosing more face by not telling than telling what you know!
At some point (probably sometime yesterday) you start loosing more face by not telling than telling what you know!
If the cover up was started in a panic there'll be a lot of buck passing going on, with nobody willing to man up and tell the truth. That's the Malaysian way.
By the way, was MAS conducting any kind of disciplinary action on the FO already?
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When Soviets shot down KAL 007, it took 2.5 hours to get the ducks lined up and to give an order to fire.
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Neogen - Come on, you don't really believe that a large commercial, easily-recognisable make of aircraft (clearly marked with their own National Airline markings) was shot out of the sky by an RMAF fighter, without a second thought?? Get real, you've been reading too many novels. 
This is Malaysia we're talking, not North Korea. The Malaysians may have their faults, but shooting first and asking questions afterwards, isn't one of them.
Correct. But more due to a bumbling bureaucracy, face-saving, and individual little fiefdoms within Malaysian society, who have a need to have their authority pandered to, often at the expense of the embarrassing truth.
This is Malaysia we're talking, not North Korea. The Malaysians may have their faults, but shooting first and asking questions afterwards, isn't one of them.
One fact for sure: Malaysian officials have given ambiguous, inaccurate and at times directly contradictory information since the aircraft's disappearance.
I don't think it was shot down. I think it sailed across the Malay Peninsula in silent running mode ( hijack or crew gone rogue) then has run out of fuel or been ditched somewhere in the Andaman Sea.
They've been searching in the wrong place. And maybe they knew it.buying time?
They've been searching in the wrong place. And maybe they knew it.buying time?
Military Primary vs SSR
First of all, I do not know the coverage of Malaysia's military radars.
Do we know if a primary pulse reached the location of the last SSR reply?
There could well be a considerable gap between the last SSR reply and the first primary returns.
While there may have been a series of primary returns, what evidence is there to tie those returns to MH370?
Or was it a smuggler or drone?
The Malaysian Air Force has not published the radar tracks. Most militaries would not as they do not want any opposition to know their capabilities -- or coverage gaps.
In the case of incapacitation, the a/c might run on autopilot until fuel exhaustion or CFIT -- or be brought down earlier by other failure modes.
If those primary returns turn out to be from MH370, we may end up with flotsam somewhere between Malacca and Madagascar. Finding the wreck in those circumstances will make the search for AF447 look easy.
Do we know if a primary pulse reached the location of the last SSR reply?
There could well be a considerable gap between the last SSR reply and the first primary returns.
While there may have been a series of primary returns, what evidence is there to tie those returns to MH370?
Or was it a smuggler or drone?
The Malaysian Air Force has not published the radar tracks. Most militaries would not as they do not want any opposition to know their capabilities -- or coverage gaps.
In the case of incapacitation, the a/c might run on autopilot until fuel exhaustion or CFIT -- or be brought down earlier by other failure modes.
If those primary returns turn out to be from MH370, we may end up with flotsam somewhere between Malacca and Madagascar. Finding the wreck in those circumstances will make the search for AF447 look easy.
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Anyone have an idea how a Triple 7 would behave with a complete electrical failure?
I don't think it would simply roll over. If the throttles & flight controls were not touched, natural stability should leave it doing small phugoid oscillations and perhaps gradually turning. I believe the fuel system would likely continue to deliver fuel and the engines would continue to run until the feeding tank ran dry.
Just theorizing a bit, but if the cockpit were breached in some significant way, not only would you lose pressurization, you would likely lose some of the functions normally controlled from the cockpit. A crew would be at a serious disadvantage to do anything meaningful.
The radar returns from the point in space where the aircraft ceased its squawk should be closely scrutinized for evidence of loss of panels or structure. If there is such evidence, then these items would be an absolute priority for attempted recovery since they would probably indicate what happened.
If the aircraft has flown as far as it is capable of after the deviation event, then finding it in a large expanse of ocean is going to involve a lot of luck. That aircraft may look big standing next to it but it is entirely possible to lose it and not find it for years.
I don't think it would simply roll over. If the throttles & flight controls were not touched, natural stability should leave it doing small phugoid oscillations and perhaps gradually turning. I believe the fuel system would likely continue to deliver fuel and the engines would continue to run until the feeding tank ran dry.
Just theorizing a bit, but if the cockpit were breached in some significant way, not only would you lose pressurization, you would likely lose some of the functions normally controlled from the cockpit. A crew would be at a serious disadvantage to do anything meaningful.
The radar returns from the point in space where the aircraft ceased its squawk should be closely scrutinized for evidence of loss of panels or structure. If there is such evidence, then these items would be an absolute priority for attempted recovery since they would probably indicate what happened.
If the aircraft has flown as far as it is capable of after the deviation event, then finding it in a large expanse of ocean is going to involve a lot of luck. That aircraft may look big standing next to it but it is entirely possible to lose it and not find it for years.
Good work Tom, must be hard work being a journalist these days when all you have to do is constantly refresh an anonymous internet forum for a story !
Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: US issued warnings over Boeing 777s
Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: US issued warnings over Boeing 777s
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Questions
1. What was the last radio transmission received from aircraft? If an aircraft goes more than 5 minutes (40 miles ) without a radio transmission someone will key the mike and ask where are you? Where they called on 121.5?
The tapes should be played.
2. What cargo was the plane carrying? Anything of interest? Precious cargo, dangerous goods? Etc?
3. Background of pilots and crew?
4. Cellphone signals can be traced. Last known position of any of the phones of the passengers?
More questions than answers. The Malaysian authorities need to answer .
The tapes should be played.
2. What cargo was the plane carrying? Anything of interest? Precious cargo, dangerous goods? Etc?
3. Background of pilots and crew?
4. Cellphone signals can be traced. Last known position of any of the phones of the passengers?
More questions than answers. The Malaysian authorities need to answer .