Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cellphones
I don't think we can put too much credence on the cellphone stories. I believe the process goes something like this: When you physically turn off your cellphone part of the shut down sequence is that it tells your carrier "I am no longer here - send all calls to voicemail. Goodbye." On the other hand if you simply go out of range the carrier will spend a few seconds trying to find you, and while it's doing that it plays the ringing signal to the caller. If it can't find you it then diverts to voicemail.
I can't state for a fact that's the way it works, but empirical data would lead me to believe it to be accurate. My wife is cabin crew on a major airline in the US and there have been occasions when she has accidentally left her cellphone on during take off. Naturally she turns it off if she remembers, but on those occasions, despite the phone being off when she lands, it rings 2 or 3 times before switching to VM. Conversely when it's turned off while still in range the call goes straight to VM regardless of where in the country she is, until she turns it on again.
I can also confirm that, in the US at least, the seat belt sign and the portable electronic devices sign remain on below 10,000.
I can't state for a fact that's the way it works, but empirical data would lead me to believe it to be accurate. My wife is cabin crew on a major airline in the US and there have been occasions when she has accidentally left her cellphone on during take off. Naturally she turns it off if she remembers, but on those occasions, despite the phone being off when she lands, it rings 2 or 3 times before switching to VM. Conversely when it's turned off while still in range the call goes straight to VM regardless of where in the country she is, until she turns it on again.
I can also confirm that, in the US at least, the seat belt sign and the portable electronic devices sign remain on below 10,000.
Last edited by MichaelKPIT; 10th Mar 2014 at 21:22. Reason: Spelling error
There are several nations keen to lend humanitarian assistance. Also unless the Chinese are getting more facts than we are on the fate of their citizens they are going to lose patience with the reports and results so far very soon
For the last time the Mobile operators have a LOT more data on phone location and switch-off vs. out of range etc. than can be inferred from customer observed behaviour.
Whoever the mobile operator is has either not been contacted (!) or the results are being withheld for some reason (e.g. customer or phone not actually on the flight)
Whoever the mobile operator is has either not been contacted (!) or the results are being withheld for some reason (e.g. customer or phone not actually on the flight)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"FACTS"
Can we please stop referring to "facts".
99.9% of us are getting our "facts" from the media. This is the same media that was still reporting a 777 door spotted in the SCS 12 hours after commercial pilots & engineers on this very forum (and others), were pointing out that no such door of the "type" shown could have come from a 777. We are now told by the same media that this never was a door.....
What is most distressing is that the media need to supply "copy" - or they get sacked. Idiots on this forum, who know no more about aviation than my dog, then "dissect" it, offering up their views.
Guess where the media come looking for some insight to what is going on, eagerly ready to provide more copy? This and other forums, hence the deeply flawed process is perpetuated.
There is one undeniable fact at the moment surround MH370. It is missing.
99.9% of us are getting our "facts" from the media. This is the same media that was still reporting a 777 door spotted in the SCS 12 hours after commercial pilots & engineers on this very forum (and others), were pointing out that no such door of the "type" shown could have come from a 777. We are now told by the same media that this never was a door.....
What is most distressing is that the media need to supply "copy" - or they get sacked. Idiots on this forum, who know no more about aviation than my dog, then "dissect" it, offering up their views.
Guess where the media come looking for some insight to what is going on, eagerly ready to provide more copy? This and other forums, hence the deeply flawed process is perpetuated.
There is one undeniable fact at the moment surround MH370. It is missing.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Huntington, IN
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Telecom guy here...if they had ANY cell signal, it would be easy to triangulate which tower was lit up. That's a five minute job to figure out.
My guess is, the phone never un-registered from the network hence why its ringing.
My guess is, the phone never un-registered from the network hence why its ringing.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tennessee - Smoky Mountains
Age: 55
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The "ringing" sound, so many rings etc is a complete red herring.
What the caller hears and what the phone does are two very separate things. When a call is sent to voicemail, the signaling message from the voicemail system that acknowledges the call causes the ring tone to be played. Once the VM system has allocated the resources to answer the call, it sends the answer message, and the call sequence continues. Most of the time, the call is acknowledged and answered simultaneously, hence no "ring" before the VM system answers. Sometimes, it doesn't. So you hear a short ring before it answers.
The handset itself does not generate a ringing tone that is heard by the caller. Network equipment does this, usually the main switch (MSC).
As has been said, this is a vein of information that the authorities will have been looking into. Whether they wish to share their findings is another matter.
What the caller hears and what the phone does are two very separate things. When a call is sent to voicemail, the signaling message from the voicemail system that acknowledges the call causes the ring tone to be played. Once the VM system has allocated the resources to answer the call, it sends the answer message, and the call sequence continues. Most of the time, the call is acknowledged and answered simultaneously, hence no "ring" before the VM system answers. Sometimes, it doesn't. So you hear a short ring before it answers.
The handset itself does not generate a ringing tone that is heard by the caller. Network equipment does this, usually the main switch (MSC).
As has been said, this is a vein of information that the authorities will have been looking into. Whether they wish to share their findings is another matter.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hove, UK
Age: 38
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's been sunrise in Vietnam for about half an hour now. I strongly suspect they'll find the crash site in the next couple of hours looking at the Aviation Herald reports....
"Vietnam's Headquarters for the Search and Rescue operation of MH-370 confirmed receiving the report by Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center stating that a Hong Kong based airliner reported a large field of debris while enroute on airway L642. A Thai cargo ship in the area was asked for assistance and has set course to the area but did not find anything unusual so far. A second vessel asked for assistance did find some debris. Following this finding Vietnam's Maritime Search and Rescue Services (MRCC) dispatched a ship to the debris field.
Hong Kong's Civil Aviation Department confirmed a Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong to Kuala Lumpur spotted large amount of debris while enroute off the coast of South East Vietnam."
The question is, how did it end so far away from it's last reported position without any contact? A bomb would have scattered debris all over the place far further back towards Malaysia no? Either a technical problem so severe it took out all communications or a hijacking/pilot suicide look most likely but suspect someone would have raised the alarm if a hijacking. After all, if it is in this crash site then they were only 50 miles from the Vietnamese coast (probably in range for mobile signal?).
Cause is still a long way off knowing but does look odds on it's around that area 80NM SE of HCMC.
"Vietnam's Headquarters for the Search and Rescue operation of MH-370 confirmed receiving the report by Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center stating that a Hong Kong based airliner reported a large field of debris while enroute on airway L642. A Thai cargo ship in the area was asked for assistance and has set course to the area but did not find anything unusual so far. A second vessel asked for assistance did find some debris. Following this finding Vietnam's Maritime Search and Rescue Services (MRCC) dispatched a ship to the debris field.
Hong Kong's Civil Aviation Department confirmed a Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong to Kuala Lumpur spotted large amount of debris while enroute off the coast of South East Vietnam."
The question is, how did it end so far away from it's last reported position without any contact? A bomb would have scattered debris all over the place far further back towards Malaysia no? Either a technical problem so severe it took out all communications or a hijacking/pilot suicide look most likely but suspect someone would have raised the alarm if a hijacking. After all, if it is in this crash site then they were only 50 miles from the Vietnamese coast (probably in range for mobile signal?).
Cause is still a long way off knowing but does look odds on it's around that area 80NM SE of HCMC.
At that local time there is no reason to think any military radar will have been operating with vigilance in that part of the world ( let alone recording track formations)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kerikeri New Zealand
Age: 89
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only thing that could cut off all communications and all electrical power, followed by silence could only be some form of catastrophic structural failure.
That aircraft had damage history, a collision with a 747 while taxiing.
It could have placed un accountable stress on the starboard wing root fittings, that decided to give up while in cruise. due to some CAT how ever light or severe as the case may be.
If the airframe went into a structural failure dive towards terra firma or water the crew would be a little more than a tad busy during the horrific descent, and would not have been able to send a radio message or mayday.
That aircraft had damage history, a collision with a 747 while taxiing.
It could have placed un accountable stress on the starboard wing root fittings, that decided to give up while in cruise. due to some CAT how ever light or severe as the case may be.
If the airframe went into a structural failure dive towards terra firma or water the crew would be a little more than a tad busy during the horrific descent, and would not have been able to send a radio message or mayday.
Old Boeing Driver
You may be right . but
Fox news reported
"Earlier, Malaysia’s air force chief told reporters that military radar indicated that the plane may have turned from its flight route before losing contact.
Rodzali Daud didn't say which direction the plane might have taken when it apparently went off route.
"We are trying to make sense of this," he told a media conference. "The military radar indicated that the aircraft may have made a turn back and in some parts, this was corroborated by civilian radar."
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 mystery: Jet's door may have been found, officials say | Fox News
You may be right . but
Fox news reported
"Earlier, Malaysia’s air force chief told reporters that military radar indicated that the plane may have turned from its flight route before losing contact.
Rodzali Daud didn't say which direction the plane might have taken when it apparently went off route.
"We are trying to make sense of this," he told a media conference. "The military radar indicated that the aircraft may have made a turn back and in some parts, this was corroborated by civilian radar."
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 mystery: Jet's door may have been found, officials say | Fox News
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: glendale
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks OLD BOEING DRIVER. it should be obvious to anyone that primary radar will tell the story if there was primary radar contact. someone asked who uses primary radar? everyone, but usually the secondary is selected. I imagine if the radar OVER THERE is even as good as our radar was 20 years ago there should be some record somewhere that can be viewed over and over.
and it should be.
IF anyone can ask the question of someone in authority, that would be great, speculation by others is not answering the question.
DOES anyone remember when stephen fossett was lost? He the man who flew the balloon on long flights? He was in a decathalon and took off from the area near a small nevada town. HIS plane was searched for and not found until someone found his driver's license. IT TOOK almost 12 months or so. And it was on the ground not the sea.
Earhart's plane is still missing from 1937!
and it should be.
IF anyone can ask the question of someone in authority, that would be great, speculation by others is not answering the question.
DOES anyone remember when stephen fossett was lost? He the man who flew the balloon on long flights? He was in a decathalon and took off from the area near a small nevada town. HIS plane was searched for and not found until someone found his driver's license. IT TOOK almost 12 months or so. And it was on the ground not the sea.
Earhart's plane is still missing from 1937!
Only guessing... having the map showing the two red dotted squares in mind the last known heading might have been in an westerly direction, otherwise they would not search in that area west of the peninsula.
Not a fact, but - from my point of view - a clear indication that somebody was able to follow the flightpath longer as we could via fr24.
Not a fact, but - from my point of view - a clear indication that somebody was able to follow the flightpath longer as we could via fr24.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On BBC News now as well:
Vietnam probes possible debris from missing Malaysia plane
BBC News - Vietnam probes possible debris from missing Malaysia plane
Vietnam probes possible debris from missing Malaysia plane
BBC News - Vietnam probes possible debris from missing Malaysia plane
Originally Posted by bbg
The only thing that could cut off all communications and all electrical power, followed by silence could only be some form of catastrophic structural failure.
That aircraft had damage history, a collision with a 747 while taxiing.
It could have placed un accountable stress on the starboard
wing root fittings, that decided to give up while in cruise. due to some CAT how ever light or severe as the case may be. If the airframe went into a structural failure dive towards terra firma or water the crew would be a little more than a tad busy during the horrific descent, and would not have been able to send a radio message or mayday.
wing root fittings, that decided to give up while in cruise. due to some CAT how ever light or severe as the case may be. If the airframe went into a structural failure dive towards terra firma or water the crew would be a little more than a tad busy during the horrific descent, and would not have been able to send a radio message or mayday.
Verdict: There is not enough info, nor sufficient weight to your analysis, to support your confidence in that being the only thing that could lead to this flight going missing, or crashing.
Why do I say this? While a 777 is not an A330, a crew without any structural failure managed to hit the ocean in AF 447.
The Adam Air flight previously referred to seems to have hit the ocean without a structural failure initiating the problem, though the after action report indicates that they flew it into structural failure.
In the case of this crew and this flight, what is unknown far exceeds what is known.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hunter Valley NSW
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That area they are searching must be like Harrods on Xmas Eve by now, they only have to see a floating cup, and they get excited, and the ATC must be thinking they are at Oshkosh. If they don't find anything today, it has to be back to the drawing board. So lets hope for a result.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Age: 92
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Malaysia B-777 missing
I think many times before has been stated that we must deal with facts and keep our thoughts as what could have happened to ourselves.
If news releases by reporters on the spot release information, this should be recorded in this spread; after all they are in touch with those who are directly involved in the investigation.
Speculation is very misleading and, dare I say, sensationalising !
If news releases by reporters on the spot release information, this should be recorded in this spread; after all they are in touch with those who are directly involved in the investigation.
Speculation is very misleading and, dare I say, sensationalising !