Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Reuters report is rather caveated and has lots of wriggle room.
(Reuters) - Officials investigating the disappearance of a Malaysian airliner with 239 people on board are narrowing the focus of their inquiries on the possibility that it disintegrated in mid-flight, a senior source said on Sunday.
(Reuters) - Officials investigating the disappearance of a Malaysian airliner with 239 people on board are narrowing the focus of their inquiries on the possibility that it disintegrated in mid-flight, a senior source said on Sunday.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: LAX
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@OldBoeingDriver Unlikely in my opinion overspeed alone would cause disintegration. United 175 hit the WTC at 513 knots at 700 feet and remained intact until impact, which is past the barber pole. Vmo for that airplane is 360 knots IIRC. Overspeed plus some kind of abrupt maneuver, possibly.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the French submarine was not listening for the right signal from the AF447 black boxes?
I find it very hard to believe.
I find it very hard to believe.
Thales Underwater Systems - Sonar Systems - Naval Technology
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I
PROBABLY UNRELATED MISINFORMATION: Is the mention of an AD related to 777 cracks (AvHerald comments) of interest here?The only useful link is to [Federal Register Volume 78, Number 187 (Thursday, September 26, 2013)] which I'm not sure how to conjure up.
Yup, seems likely to be routine airplane-safety business. Here's part of the text of the publication of the intended AD:
Yup, seems likely to be routine airplane-safety business. Here's part of the text of the publication of the intended AD:
We received a report of cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin underneath the SATCOM antenna adapter. During a maintenance planning data inspection, one operator reported a 16-inch crack under the 3-bay SATCOM antenna adapter plate in the crown skin of the fuselage on an airplane that was 14 years old with approximately 14,000 total flight cycles. Subsequent to this crack finding, the same operator inspected 42 other airplanes that are between 6 and 16 years old and found some local corrosion, but no other cracking. Cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin, if not corrected, could lead to rapid decompression and loss of structural integrity of the airplane.
Last edited by poorjohn; 9th Mar 2014 at 16:44. Reason: added text from Federal Register
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a word of caution from a S&R Tech (CASARA) on the reported 'oil-slicks' apparently seen by the Vietnamese. These waters are near some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world. Many vessels still routinely (and illegally) 'flush' their tanks while at sea. Yes, the sheen could be from aircraft Jet A1 - but would dissipate pretty quickly, in hours not days.
There is a distinct possibly it came from a passing vessel though...
There is a distinct possibly it came from a passing vessel though...
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quoting Scoobys:
I flew as an f/a doing long haul for years, if I was given a quid every time someone tried to bin or burn their passports in the lavs on arrival into egll I'd be a millionaire, then they would tell immigration they where from a different country,have been persecuted and have just so happened to have lost their passports and please Mr Blair can I have asylum.
unquote
I was once airline staff at a major airport. The same thing happened there! Traveling on a fake passport is not necessarily related to terrorism! In an earlier post someone suggested that the supposed itinerary of the users could mask their country of origin, making a repatriation difficult. Sounds plausible too!
I flew as an f/a doing long haul for years, if I was given a quid every time someone tried to bin or burn their passports in the lavs on arrival into egll I'd be a millionaire, then they would tell immigration they where from a different country,have been persecuted and have just so happened to have lost their passports and please Mr Blair can I have asylum.
unquote
I was once airline staff at a major airport. The same thing happened there! Traveling on a fake passport is not necessarily related to terrorism! In an earlier post someone suggested that the supposed itinerary of the users could mask their country of origin, making a repatriation difficult. Sounds plausible too!
Sky News just reporting that they have VERIFIED a photo...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
barrel owl, sorry might not have been clear.
I don't mean that the Freescale employees weren't on the flight, simply that they were unlikely to be top key employees. This wasn't a "decapitation" of the company management as the article seemed to be implying. It may have been low level managers from one of their Malaysian fabs.
I don't mean that the Freescale employees weren't on the flight, simply that they were unlikely to be top key employees. This wasn't a "decapitation" of the company management as the article seemed to be implying. It may have been low level managers from one of their Malaysian fabs.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Age: 56
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have read the story about the SR-71 mission several times.
I am guessing MS370 was about M.85 at FL350 for cruise.
Disregarding all the conspiracy theories for the moment, there is an indication that the plane's direction turned abruptly to the left. (if the data is correct)
The captain was a 777 simulator fan. Maybe demonstrating something on the real plane?
Question for all...???
Is there anyway the plane could have exceeded designed speeds in a short period of time so as to disintegrate?
I am guessing MS370 was about M.85 at FL350 for cruise.
Disregarding all the conspiracy theories for the moment, there is an indication that the plane's direction turned abruptly to the left. (if the data is correct)
The captain was a 777 simulator fan. Maybe demonstrating something on the real plane?
Question for all...???
Is there anyway the plane could have exceeded designed speeds in a short period of time so as to disintegrate?
I haven't heard that the turn was abrupt.
WTF is a simulator fan??? Was he a training Capt?
Im 1000% sure PIC would not have been "demonstrating" anything. Sims are for demonstrations........ Not the A/C on a revenue flight. Sometimes training (not that I'm insinuating this was a training flight at all) is about showing new pilots the page numbering system in the flight manual!!!
FBW aircraft have envelope protection so exceeding limits is difficult.
GW
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Age: 60
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I find it very hard to believe. People generally are not that stupid. Sonar operators (if that is how they were listening) would have in depth technical knowledge of their equipment."
YRP, They may have knowledge of their equipment, but not knowledge of what frequency to listen for from an aircrafts acoustic beacon. That's not something they do everyday.
And yes, people are generally that stupid. They just front like they know what's going on. It's a natural defense mechanism.
As far as a reference, look it up yourself. You'll remember it longer. Believe me, if you do your own research, you'll find how competent/incompetent people, governments, businesses, etc really are!
YRP, They may have knowledge of their equipment, but not knowledge of what frequency to listen for from an aircrafts acoustic beacon. That's not something they do everyday.
And yes, people are generally that stupid. They just front like they know what's going on. It's a natural defense mechanism.
As far as a reference, look it up yourself. You'll remember it longer. Believe me, if you do your own research, you'll find how competent/incompetent people, governments, businesses, etc really are!
Coffin corner
That was kind of the direction I was going.
Maybe a scenario where a malfunction got them way too fast, and then a ham-fisted recovery started various mechanical failures.
I know not applicable here, but harmonic resonance in a helicopter utterly disintegrates it in a few seconds.
I was wondering if there might be something similar with this situation.
Just another wild theory.......
Maybe a scenario where a malfunction got them way too fast, and then a ham-fisted recovery started various mechanical failures.
I know not applicable here, but harmonic resonance in a helicopter utterly disintegrates it in a few seconds.
I was wondering if there might be something similar with this situation.
Just another wild theory.......
Last edited by Old Boeing Driver; 9th Mar 2014 at 16:33. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: toofaraway
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No connection, but don't expect a quick resolution...
"MH 653 was a scheduled domestic flight from Penang to Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, operated by MAS. On the evening of 4 December 1977, the Boeing 737-200 aircraft flying the service crashed at Tanjung Kupang, Johor, in Malaysia. It was the first fatal air crash for Malaysia Airlines with all 93 passengers and 7 crew killed instantly. The flight was apparently hijacked as soon as it reached cruise altitude. The circumstances in which the hijacking and subsequent crash occurred remain unsolved."
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: LAX
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That was kind of the direction I was going.
Maybe a scenario where a
malfunction got them way too fast, and them a ham-fisted recovery started
various mechanical failures.
I know not applicable here, but harmonic
resonance in a helicopter utterly disintegrates it in a few seconds.
I
was wondering if there might be something similar with this situation.
Just another wild theory.......
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Age: 60
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Okay so based on your response, Coagie, you don't have a reference. 
"
YRP, People like you have to have facts spoon fed to you. Won't this make you fall prey to propaganda? I could spend a time finding the reference from a while ago, but if you're wondering, why not look yourself? I poured over thousands of facts about AF447, over the last 5 years, and if I happen to dig it up, I'll let you know. Maybe someone else remembers the French having to review the sonar tapes? It wasn't a secret, but since it was such a big mistake, they didn't exactly shout it from the treetops!
"YRP, People like you have to have facts spoon fed to you. Won't this make you fall prey to propaganda? I could spend a time finding the reference from a while ago, but if you're wondering, why not look yourself? I poured over thousands of facts about AF447, over the last 5 years, and if I happen to dig it up, I'll let you know. Maybe someone else remembers the French having to review the sonar tapes? It wasn't a secret, but since it was such a big mistake, they didn't exactly shout it from the treetops!
Last edited by Coagie; 9th Mar 2014 at 16:47. Reason: Adding quote
@OldBoeingDriver Unlikely in my opinion overspeed alone would cause disintegration. United 175 hit the WTC at 513 knots at 700 feet and remained intact until impact, which is past the barber pole. Vmo for that airplane is 360 knots IIRC. Overspeed plus some kind of abrupt maneuver, possibly.
Significantly exceeding Mmo on the other hand can lead to nasty flutter which can then lead to disintegration.
At high altidute you would hit ciritcal Mach number prior to hitting any ciritcal airspeed. Theoretically this can become unrecoverable due to Mach Tuck. But to get to that point will required a significant and extended dive since drag will start to increase heavily when approaching Mach 1.
That said, a straight steep dive from 35k probably could lead to disintegration.
In reality straight dives are rare and less disorienting. More often a spiral dive ensues.
And that also tends to be more dangerous and also more difficult to identify and counter correctly at night or in IMC.
At lower altitudes it is therefore rather this 'graveyard spiral' mechanism that sometimes leads to in-flight disintegration (especially of GA aircraft that are otherwsie rather difficult to break up in flight). In that case a spiral dive which is not actively countered continues to accelerate in rotation and vertical speed. Due to longitudinal stability the aircraft will pull more and more g to counter the increasing speed. If not interrupted quickly by dedicated and correct action this will lead quickly to self- disintegration. Instinctive pull-up prior to complete arrest of rotation aggravates the problem and will lead to immediate disintegration.
Resident insomniac
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 79
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually on a grass taxiway
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have to take into consideration that Mmo is potentially more critical than Vmo. Exceeding Vmo alone is empirically not that dangerous.
Significantly exceeding Mmo on the other hand can lead to nasty flutter which can then lead to disintegration.
At high altidute you would hit ciritcal Mach number prior to hitting any ciritcal airspeed. Theoretically this can become unrecoverable due to Mach Tuck. But to get to that point will required a significant and extended dive since drag will start to increase heavily when approaching Mach 1.
That said, a straight steep dive from 35k probably could lead to disintegration.
In reality straight dives are rare and less disorienting. More often a spiral dive ensues.
And that also tends to be more dangerous and also more difficult to identify and counter correctly at night or in IMC.
At lower altitudes it is therefore rather this 'graveyard spiral' mechanism that sometimes leads to in-flight disintegration (especially of GA aircraft that are otherwsie rather difficult to break up in flight). In that case a spiral dive which is not actively countered continues to accelerate in rotation and vertical speed. Due to longitudinal stability the aircraft will pull more and more g to counter the increasing speed. If not interrupted quickly by dedicated and correct action this will lead quickly to self- disintegration. Instinctive pull-up prior to complete arrest of rotation aggravates the problem and will lead to immediate disintegration.
Significantly exceeding Mmo on the other hand can lead to nasty flutter which can then lead to disintegration.
At high altidute you would hit ciritcal Mach number prior to hitting any ciritcal airspeed. Theoretically this can become unrecoverable due to Mach Tuck. But to get to that point will required a significant and extended dive since drag will start to increase heavily when approaching Mach 1.
That said, a straight steep dive from 35k probably could lead to disintegration.
In reality straight dives are rare and less disorienting. More often a spiral dive ensues.
And that also tends to be more dangerous and also more difficult to identify and counter correctly at night or in IMC.
At lower altitudes it is therefore rather this 'graveyard spiral' mechanism that sometimes leads to in-flight disintegration (especially of GA aircraft that are otherwsie rather difficult to break up in flight). In that case a spiral dive which is not actively countered continues to accelerate in rotation and vertical speed. Due to longitudinal stability the aircraft will pull more and more g to counter the increasing speed. If not interrupted quickly by dedicated and correct action this will lead quickly to self- disintegration. Instinctive pull-up prior to complete arrest of rotation aggravates the problem and will lead to immediate disintegration.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PA, USA
Age: 47
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Accepting that the photo purported to show the aircraft door is indeed that of a door, I don't recall 777 doors with windows of that size and more-or-less centered in the door frame. Most of the doors I've seen have windows that seem smaller and off-center. Maybe just my imagination playing tricks or an optical illusion.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Age: 56
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WTF is a simulator fan???
Malaysia Airlines Captain*Zaharie Ahmad Shah of MH370 is an experienced pilot. He set up this 777 simulator. - Sharelor
Malaysia Airlines Captain*Zaharie Ahmad Shah of MH370 is an experienced pilot. He set up this 777 simulator. - Sharelor
Well you need to understand that in our profession, a simulator is a box we crawl into once/twice per year to practice procedures and (hopefully) pass competency checks. its not a computer game.
To be honest, i don't think anyone is a "fan" of simulators (job wise)...except the guy in the back that is getting paid to kill/humiliate/train/impart knowledge/empathise/motivate and pass us... all for the safety/benefit/comfort of the travelling public
GW