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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:16
  #1941 (permalink)  
 
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Ok, so IF (and a big if at the moment) it was a depressurization and for whatever reason the pilots were unable to keep/regain consciousness. When would ATC realise something was wrong and get some fast jets scrambled to check it out? Surely that would be a common sense approach.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:17
  #1942 (permalink)  
 
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Very Perplexing.
It is.

Sounds to me like depressurisation,
Possibly an option if we accept the idea that the aircraft was indeed the object detected on radar crossing the Malay peninsula.

but you need to link depressurisation and transponder loss. This could be caused by structural failure taking out antennas, or electric supply loss on a common supply
I wonder if there was a problem with the flight deck oxy supply
Perhaps it's worth asking a suitably qualified engineer for his/her opinion on the proximity (or not) of the crew oxygen bottle to significant electronic/electrical components . Could a problem with one cause a problem with the other?

Not speculatin', just askin'.....
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:18
  #1943 (permalink)  
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What's the MSA over the part of the Malaysian peninsula that they might have flown to get to the Malacca Straits?
I've looked on Google Earth but can't seem to find the elevation.
I wonder what altitude they were at tracking west?
Edited:
I see the RMAF are saying contact lost at 2:40am at FL29 near Pulau Perak.
I wonder if this is a de-pressurisation event over the Igari waypoint, an attempted turn onto a reciprocal track, some failure of flight deck 02 and hypoxia setting in before turnback complete... and a ghost flight heading out to sea westbound.
Why was mode C lost though - perhaps a partially hypoxic pilot selecting the wrong setting?
Still doesn't explain how some sort of jet-upset would happen to put the aircraft in the sea though.
Very strange indeed.

Last edited by tartare; 12th Mar 2014 at 00:42.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:26
  #1944 (permalink)  
 
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Earlier, someone pointed out that the waters surrounding the last known position are shallow, but the bottom sediments are often thick, loosely-consolidated pyroclastic deposits. Could these sediments 'absorb' a B777, travelling at speed?
Yes, raised in Post 1470.http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...st8364903.html
The theory has not yet been debunked.
As a result of a near vertical dive imagine the small craters we have seen on land (flight 93 9/11) occurring in the muddy 20-40 meter sediment in shallow 30 meter waters of Malacca Straights.

Also references crashes in water where there was very little evidence of a fuel slick.(flight 990)
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:35
  #1945 (permalink)  
 
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http://www.dca.gov.my/Division/Airwo...es/AN%2091.pdf

A possibility of inflight decompression
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:35
  #1946 (permalink)  
 
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No digital communication from the aircraft following decompression? Also, o2 masks would explain the 'mumbled' radio transmission?
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:37
  #1947 (permalink)  
 
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What's the MSA over the part of the Malaysian peninsula that they might have flown to get to the Malacca Straits?
Generally ~3000 feet, but there is a mountain range parallel to the coast east of George Town with ridges rising to 4000ft and the highest peak over 6000. Just to the north though there is a wide flat corridor inland where the entire peninsula may safely be crossed at 3000ft.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:40
  #1948 (permalink)  
 
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If I may...

Perhaps it's worth asking a suitably qualified engineer for his/her opinion on the proximity (or not) of the crew oxygen bottle to significant electronic/electrical components . Could a problem with one cause a problem with the other?
Crew 02 bottles are on the left side of the forward EE Bay tunnel. Just forward of the EE bay/Cabin access hatch.

There are significant electrical and electronic systems adjacent to the bottles but I'm pretty sure the ATC transponder boxes are far enough away not to be compromised immediatley should a bottle fail are a fire begin in that area.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:41
  #1949 (permalink)  
 
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What's the MSA over the part of the Malaysian peninsula that they might have flown to get to the Malacca Straits?
The minimum off route altitude is at its highest around Ipoh (WMKI). It is 9500ft there.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:42
  #1950 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone remember the three Ugly Sisters at QF, one developed a massive crack in the fuse which could have easily sent it to the bottom of the Pacific.

I hope not but could the ex MAS B744 crack, caused by illegitimate sealant removal using a box cutter, be repeated again?

Often it pays to look at history, as it has a habit of repeating itself.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:44
  #1951 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill
The theory has not yet been debunked.
On land gravity keeps things at the bottom of the crater. In water buoyant objects rise to the surface. Also don't underestimate the arresting and destructive force of 50-100 metres of water in a high-speed impact.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:44
  #1952 (permalink)  
 
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A semi-retraction from the RMAF.

IMHO this is ridiculous butt-covering. Any credible SAR effort would not commit such serious assets to a search area so diametrically opposed to the track of the aircraft in question without very good reasons.

The Malaysian political imperatives now seem to be taking over, leading to an impression of a confused SAR effort.

The Malaysians need to be upfront here. Already the suspicions of a cover up are beginning.

OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY CHIEF OF ROYAL MALAYSIAN AIR FORCE ON
BERITA HARIAN NEWS ARTICLE DATED 11th MARCH 2014 ON SEARCH AND RESCUE OPERATIONS IN THE STRAITS OF MALACCA

1. I refer to the Berita Harian news article dated 11th March 2014 on Search and Rescue Operations in the Straits of Malacca which (in Bahasa Malaysia) referred to me as making the following statements:

The RMAF Chief confirmed that RMAF Butterworth airbase detected the location signal of the airliner as indicating that it turned back from its original heading to the direction of Kota Bahru, Kelantan, and was believed to have pass through the airspace of the East Coast of and Northern Peninsular Malaysia.

The last time the plane was detected by the air control tower was in the vicinity of Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca at 2.40 in the morning before the signal disappeared without any trace, he said.

2. I wish to state that I did not make any such statements as above, what occurred was that the Berita Harian journalist asked me if such an incident occurred as detailed in their story, however I did not give any answer to the question, instead what I said to the journalist was “Please refer to the statement which I have already made on 9 March 2014, during the press conference with the Chief of Defence Force at the Sama-Sama Hotel, Kuala Lumpur International Airport”.

3. What I stated during that press conference was,

The RMAF has not ruled out the possibility of an air turn back on a reciprocal heading before the aircraft vanished from the radar and this resulted in the Search and Rescue Operations being widen to the vicinity of the waters of Pulau Pinang.

4. I request this misreporting be amended and corrected to prevent further misinterpretations of what is clearly an inaccurate and incorrect report.

5. Currently the RMAF is examining and analyzing all possibilities as regards to the airliner’s flight paths subsequent to its disappearance. However for the time being, it would not be appropriate for the RMAF to issue any official conclusions as to the aircraft’s flight path until a high amount of certainty and verification is achieved. However all ongoing search operations are at the moment being conducted to cover all possible areas where the aircraft could have gone down in order to ensure no possibility is overlooked.

6. In addition, I would like to state to the media that all information and developments will be released via official statements and press conferences as soon as possible and when appropriate. Our current efforts are focused upon on finding the aircraft as soon as possible.

Thank You

GENERAL TAN SRI DATO’SRI RODZALI BIN DAUD RMAF
Chief of Royal Malaysian Air Force

Released On:

11 March 14
Kuala Lumpur
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:50
  #1953 (permalink)  
 
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Crew oxygen supply

Are there two completely separate bottles/regs/valves etc, ie independent systems for each pilot?

Is there a portable oxygen supply stowed in the cockpit?
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:54
  #1954 (permalink)  
 
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DType
Disc failure unlikely???
One assumes (!) that it was not at take off power when it "vanished", and there is much less stress on most engine components at cruise power
Certainly true, but it certainly can happen. United flight 232 suffered a catastrophic fan disc failure in cruise at FL370.

United Airlines Flight 232 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:55
  #1955 (permalink)  
 
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DAUD is covering his ass here as reuters reported the story was confirmed by another military source.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:56
  #1956 (permalink)  
 
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Are there two completely separate bottles/regs/valves etc, ie independent systems for each pilot?

Is there a portable oxygen supply stowed in the cockpit?

James
Two bottles feeding a common system to both pilots & jump seat occupants. ( I think-it's been a while).

Portable 02 in the cockpit? Not to my knowledge.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 00:58
  #1957 (permalink)  
 
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777 is a fly-by-wire aircraft

If for some reason, all electrical went out to lunch .. all of the major control surfaces might go to neutral? (remember, the 777 is the first fly-by-wire commercial jet) You'd be flying similar to the Sioux City aircraft without hydraulics? Only the engines to control left/right/up/down with? I think you'd have major problems with the up/down .. it might go into a phugoid oscillatory mode. Very difficult to control .. flying low .. you might get an idea of land/water to see where you were, but, you're cooked. You have to figure a place to land, and it's not going to be pretty. But, I'd think that there would be battery power for the critical items .. flight control computers, comm radios? Unless it was some sort of power surge throughout the system?
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 01:00
  #1958 (permalink)  
 
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in my opinion from the little evidence available, it had a depressurisation problem rendering the flight crew and passengers unconscious, resulting in the aircraft flying solely on autopilot and completely unmonitored from the malacca straights on an approximate track taking it over the indian ocean towards the island of madagascar via diago garcia, where at some point it ran out of fuel.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 01:00
  #1959 (permalink)  
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Jabawocky:-

I had the exact same thoughts, same airline same paint removal process
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 01:01
  #1960 (permalink)  
 
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Isn't about time all data is transmitted/streamed live from an aircraft, rather than just information on engine condition to the manufacturer? With the AF A330 crash, investigators had a reasonable idea of what happened through the final ACARS messages.

Searching for the CVR and Black Box can be a challenge, in this case, the authorities cannot even find the aircraft!
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