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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 11th Mar 2014, 09:52
  #1681 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by updrifter View Post
Aside from the Payne Stewart Learjet incident there has been another prominent case of crew and PAX being knocked out by hypoxia. Helios Airways flight 522 in 2005, a Boeing 737.


The problem was simply that the pressurisation system was set to "manual" instead of "automatic". The 737 flew on auto until fuel was empty and crashed.

In case of MH370 I wonder where it would have ended up in such a scenario. For sure it would have gone far, but it should have attracted attention somewhere on the way?
Hypoxia would not switch off the ADS and SSR transponders. In all the cases of hypoxia and crew incapacitation I have read, the aircraft carried on with no problem squawking as normal. Just no-one answered the RT.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 09:56
  #1682 (permalink)  
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Mr Good Cat,

Sadly there are many 'black hole' areas where you will get the 'Datalink unavailable' EICAS on both SATCOM datalink and VHF datalink.

Temporary ACARS datalink losses are very common, across Siberia/Mongolia you can lose it for 10-15 minutes.

This is a very confusing loss, much like the AF loss. Once the aircraft has been located then I'm sure there will be a lot to learn.

As to smoking/visitors in the flight deck that is very much up to the airline and the operating authority. In my airline it is forbidden to have visitors in flight and to smoke. On many other airlines those restrictions do not exist. Do you know, specifically the SOP's for Malaysian Airlines? I don't.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 09:58
  #1683 (permalink)  
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On the 777, to have the pressurisation in manual and not realise it, is extremely hard. Much harder than on the 737. ( I have flown both all variations of both types). I don't believe the thing depressurised and the crew were unaware of it.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 09:58
  #1684 (permalink)  
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Having conducted business in Asia in the past I am well aware of the importance of " Saving Face " You only have to look at Fukushima to understand just what sort of lengths people will go to too save face.

Is it feasible that the Malaysian Airforce are embarrassed that MH370 managed to overfly the country without being detected, could that be the reason for not disclosing that primary radar returns were detected by the Navy in the Malaccan Strait ???
I have that feeling too. It's a quite plausible scenario.

Though it doesn't explain lack of comms / elt / ACARS etc. But then again no likely theory fits the current available evidence.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:11
  #1685 (permalink)  
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china eastern airlines flight 5093

Looking at the planefinder.net at 17:20 local time MH370 leaves the screen,the only other aircraft close by is china eastern airlines flight 5093.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:12
  #1686 (permalink)  
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Too much concidence?

MH370 detected above Malacca Straits at 2.40am

2:40 am - exactly the same time the original reports said it was declared missing. Too coincidental!

More likely this is a journalist who's conflating different stories. 9:1 says this story dies an inglorious death.

Also I'm sure some pilots can comment on the flight time from the last reported position and time to Pulau Perak. It looks like a very slow flight to me.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:12
  #1687 (permalink)  
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The engine manufacturers live engine monitoring service was not activated on MH370 press reports state.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:13
  #1688 (permalink)  
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The MAS series of dangerously low fuel emergencies into Heathrow lead to bare faced denials and cover ups by MAS. UK authorities couldn't rely on assurances given and in the end had to insist that MAS provided weekly reports on fuel levels of aircraft arriving into the UK as a condition of being allowed to fly there.

With the present incident on home soil you'll find commercial aviation and military interests are far too buddy buddy to expect leaks to filter into the public domain.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:13
  #1689 (permalink)  
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Now we are getting somewhere..

Air Force chief Rodzali Daud ( left ) is quoted as saying that based on military radar readings from its station in Butterworth, MH370 may have turned west after Kota Bahru and flew past the east coast and Kedah.

"The last time the plane was detected was near Pulau Perak, in the Straits of Malacca, at 2.40am," Berita Harian quotes Rodzali as saying.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:15
  #1690 (permalink)  
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To the guy who wondered if an AD was every issued in response to the Egpytair cockpit fire. Yes, there appears to be one on record.

The Boeing Company Airplanes

Was this airframe in compliance with this AD?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:16
  #1691 (permalink)  
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The B777-200 aircraft that operated MH370 underwent maintenance 10 days before this particular flight on 6 March 2014. The next check is due on 19 June 2014. The maintenance was conducted at the KLIA hangar and there were no issues on the health of the aircraft.

The aircraft was delivered to Malaysia Airlines in 2002 and have since recorded 53,465.21 hours with a total of 7525 cycles. All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with continuous data monitoring system called the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) which transmits data automatically. Nevertheless, there were no distress calls and no information was relayed.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:20
  #1692 (permalink)  
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Well it explains why the search is now to the west.

I'm sure the Airforce know more than they are admitting.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:38
  #1693 (permalink)  
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If you plot the possible track from Kl towards IGARI then a left turn to Pulau Perak it forms a partial anti clockwise turn around the air defence base at Gong Kedak.

What exactly do the Malaysians know.....
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:43
  #1694 (permalink)  
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The most likely reason we know so little

Anyone wondering why there is so little information on this lost a/c should look to the recent admission by Malaysian civil aviation chief "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

In this part of the world, which I know well, one of the key priorities for any investigation is to ensure that national loss of face is minimized. This means that if the Malaysians have a better idea of where to to look they are going to do their utmost to find the a/c before they share any of this information with the public, let alone the other countries participating in the search. It would be a huge embarrassment to them if say a Chinese frigate were to find the plane first. If there is any hint of error on behalf of the Malaysian flight crew, say from an ACARS message, then I am sure this will not be shared until the a/c is found.

It is all very well to try to dream up scenarios where a plane vanishes without visible debris, but the most likely explanation to my mind is that the SAR are not coordinated internationally.

The same goes for the Vietnamese and Chinese. If they have promising leads, then there is a strong possibility they will not share this information, at least not in a timely manner. Furthermore, if something is found, the information must flow all the way to the top before it is shared, even within an individual agency.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:45
  #1695 (permalink)  
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As flagged earlier, the Malaysian authorities HAVE been withholding information.

The last time the plane was detected was near Pulau Perak, in the Straits of Malacca, at 2.40am," Berita Harian quotes Rodzali as saying.
Pulau Perak (Pulau means "island") is approximately 85 NM WNW of Penang Airport.

The terrorism theory is fast losing traction so what we are left with is a, currently inexplicable, action by the flight crew.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:50
  #1696 (permalink)  
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Anyone else noticed that Pulau Perak doesn't exist at its lat/long on Google Earth? There's a 16km square of different - blurred - resolution image.

Its obviously an island of some strategic importance with radar installation and military activity (military chopper crash there last year).
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:54
  #1697 (permalink)  
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The complete lack of traces, debris or witnesses can only mean one thing, hijacking. Turn off the transponder, pull the ACARS cb's, and you are invisible to all but military primary radar. Descend low and not even they will see you. You are now in a fully functioning aircraft with astounding navigational capability, but invisible to the world. Where do you want to go?

The search area should be a seven hour fuel endurance radius of last known position. Since no ELT has gone off means it didn't crash, it landed. Remote airfields in China? Indonesia? Philippines? It means you must know how to navigate and land a 777. How many pilots in the world have undergone 777 training? Even just simulator training would suffice. 5000?

Looking forward to your thoughts.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:58
  #1698 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mahatma Kote View Post
Pulau Perak is the western-most part of Malaysia and has various civil and military structures on it including a lighthouse.



Note not visible with satellite view, use map view.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:59
  #1699 (permalink)  
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Missing flight MH370: Co-pilot entertained Melbourne woman and friend on a previous i

A CO-PILOT at the controls of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 invited a Melbourne tourist and her friend into the cockpit where he smoked, took photos and entertained the pair during a previous international flight.
In a worrying lapse of security, it’s been revealed pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid and his colleague broke Malaysia Airline rules when they invited passengers Jonti Roos and Jaan Maree to join them in the cabin for the one-hour flight from Phuket to Kuala Lumpur.
Ms Roos, who is travelling around Australia, told A Current Affair she and Ms Maree posed for pictures with the pilots, who smoked cigarettes during the midair rendez-vous.
“Throughout the entire flight they were talking to us and they were actually smoking throughout the flight which I don’t think they’re allowed to do,” Ms Roos said.

More here: Missing flight MH370: Co-pilot entertained Melbourne woman and friend on a previous international flight | The Mercury
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 11:01
  #1700 (permalink)  
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Question for 777 pilots

What does the MEL say about one PACK inop? Altitude restrictions? Bear with me on this...
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