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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:34
  #961 (permalink)  
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I have NO KNOWLEDGE of the 777 FBW system but i assume, it won't let you get close to a stall, let alone a spin.
I wouldn't say the 777 FBW in normal mode will prevent you from stalling, but it certainly drops a heck of a lot of hints on the way to the stall that you are doing something wrong.....

If the FBW has degraded into secondary/direct modes then those hints/protections are absent.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:39
  #962 (permalink)  
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For those who subscribe to rapid disintegration caused by an explosion, you don't necessarily need something as Machiavellian as a terrorist bomb. As someone else already hinted, what was the cargo? Or perhaps this could be another TWA800?

TWA Flight 800 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:41
  #963 (permalink)  
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@henra Something I should have taken into account; chalk it up to being up too early this morning when we changed time here in the states. Thanks for responding.

In any case, it's all pure speculation while we wait for actual news and quite unlikely as the airplane was likely in autoflight mode and there were no reported speed abnormalities. Massive structural failure still strikes me as the most likely explanation for reasons yet to be determined.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:42
  #964 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Global Warrior View Post
I have NO KNOWLEDGE of the 777 FBW system but i assume, it won't let you get close to a stall, let alone a spin.
What it probably won't do is preventing you from entering a spiral dive if the AP kicks out and no one's watching.
Has happened before.
A spiral dive is a quite different matter from a spin. It is not aerodynamically out of control and will ultimately lead to disintegration, something a spin can't do since it is a more or less 1g maneuver and aerodynamically out of control.
But all that is indeed idle speculation. Or rather not. Just musing about general technical possibilities.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:43
  #965 (permalink)  
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Just my $.02/2quid's worth (depending on where you are).

I don't think a stall/spin scenario is an issue here.

Far more likely to be a high speed, mach tuck, and flawed recovery issue.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:51
  #966 (permalink)  
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Re: Debris Field photos

My apologies if this has been already covered.

The pic of the debris field looks remarkably like pics I have of the green houses clustered along the coast of Vietnam at night. There is an area with hundreds of rectangle green houses all clustered together and lit up with glowing internal lights. If you look closely at the pic you will see that the lights follow a valley in the top right. There is also a distinctive domed area which is a small hill.

That is why you can see them in the dark.

In addition a flight from KL to ZBAA would fly right over them just over an hour after take off.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:53
  #967 (permalink)  
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Sadly, yes, Five Green

But it was many, many, pages ago.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 17:55
  #968 (permalink)  
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Kentot Besar:

Submarines In SAR

Malaysia has " highly sophiscated " Scorpene submarines which have French made technology....why are these assets not used? AF447 was in deep ocean waters. I believe the depths of the Gulf of Siam is shallower but should be able to accommodate the Scorpenes; they would certainly be a crowning moment for the much ridiculed decision to buy the subs.
What can a sub do that a surface vessel can't in this case which will aid recovery and locating the plane?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:14
  #969 (permalink)  
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I can't help but wonder if this could be the first CAT related in-flight breakup since BOAC 911.

- a satellite photo at the time and location shows high level cirrus clouds
- CAT events have increased in numbers and intensity in the past years
- the area has recently seen a very significant CAT event (SQ 308)
- apparently the aircraft dropped and changed course before vanishing

As unlikely as it is, boats have been swallowed by monster waves of previously unimaginable strengths. Could we be dealing with a monster CAT here?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:16
  #970 (permalink)  
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Sub search

What can a sub do that a surface vessel can't in this case which will aid recovery and locating the plane?
It can hear the black-box pinger at 50 km, instead of 3 km.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:18
  #971 (permalink)  
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Silver: some of the navy surface vessels involved in this search, and sonobuoy-equipped p-3s also have capable sonar. Submarines are good at hiding, not necessarily searching a large area for flotsam or pingers (particularly not in shallow water) although of course it won't hurt to use them when they're already there.

it's hard to grasp that a large, modern airliner can seemingly disappear without a trace, and it's very disturbing...but on the other hand, we're speaking about tens of thousands of km2 search area, which will have been expanded several times now. I think it's safe to say by now ELTs wont help. I'd also dare to say that locating debris on the surface of the ocean, despite all modern long-range sensors, will ultimately still depend on mark 1 eyeball verification. In the absence of radio transmissions and acars data, until some physical evidence is found, maybe it's time to freeze this thread?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:18
  #972 (permalink)  
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once again PPRuNe lives up to its I am an expert culture
the acft is missing 200 + people have died, no wreckage at the moment, but there are 50 pages of people telling us what may have happened leave it to facts not guesswork
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:21
  #973 (permalink)  
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Objects have been spotted near the oil slicks, one appears to be similar to an aircraft door, 90 km south of Thổ Châu island (Vietnam):

Malaysia Airlines missing jet: object in water might be plane's door - World - CBC News


Last edited by Feathered; 9th Mar 2014 at 18:34. Reason: added map link
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:22
  #974 (permalink)  
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Old Boring Drivel,

You repeatedly suggest this professional crew has botched a recovery from an upset event that not I, nor anyone else is aware of. Will you please refrain; the captain has 30+ years airline experience, this is a 777, not an unmodded Learjet. There is nothing suggesting a Mach tuck scenario, spiral dive, stall, spin, or anything for that matter.

This *is* perhaps the most embarrassing accident thread on PPRuNe. Ever.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:25
  #975 (permalink)  
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I do hope this is not an engine failure that caused an un-observed loss of airspeed & resulting consequences eg the 747 years ago. (Sorry if this has been raised but can't read all posts it would take all day)
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:29
  #976 (permalink)  
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Nothing like a B777 door! Look at a picture of a B777. Easy!
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:33
  #977 (permalink)  
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Well speculate no more 'cause Yahoo reckon they have an exclusive.... FAIL

Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:41
  #978 (permalink)  
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Entry into Malaysia.

You exit Thailand with a " Valid" Thai entry stamp in 1 passport and enter Malaysia with a second passport. Now Thai & Malay Exits compare you with your entry photo. Now does it work if your exit / entry is land, sea or rail. I doubt remote border post are connect with the main airport servers.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:42
  #979 (permalink)  
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The door doesn't look like a main entry door, but it could be a forward or aft cargo door, bottom right hand side.

For the T7 to over speed to the point of disintegration you would have to do it intentionally, Mate of mine got a 767 50kts trough the barbers pole over Greenland a few years back due to wind shift, and it wasn't a problem for the aircraft, for him yes!
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 18:43
  #980 (permalink)  
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That picture looks more like the emergency exit hatch on a king air than a main door to a Boeing.

Never been in a 777, could that be an overwing exit door?

On ELT's Since it's been 6 or 7 pages, and that's about how often it comes up. An ELT is designed to work in a potentially survivable crash, not to transmit if you hit the water at 600 MPH. Not to say the ELT isn't going off, but it would be separated from it's antenna. There is a picture of one of the AF flights recorders at the bottom of the ocean on the internet. If you look you will see it is still in its rack and the rack is separated from its mounting location.
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