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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 9th Mar 2014, 14:58
  #881 (permalink)  
 
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I am not a SAR Expert but i think these Locators are not intended to be received by airborn search-teams
Anti-Sub aircrafts are able to deploy so called sonarbuoys to collect accustic signals...
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:00
  #882 (permalink)  
 
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Military radar in normal peacetime works the opposite way. Rather than controlling civilian airspace, it just monitors it, with a real-time data link to civilian ATC. On military monitors the known and identified targets are blanked out, so observers can focus on any unidentified targets. Thus military radar would not have monitored MH370, and if in the few seconds between loss of transponder signal and descent below observable height an unidentified blip would have appeared, that would have likely gone unnoticed. In all such cases it is a lengthy reconstruction process to retrieve the primary military radar data (which may first need to be 'weeded' to remove traces of any hush-hush activity), then match all targets with known and identified aircraft before anything may be said with any certainty.
I would not bet on this. One of the learnings of September 11, was for USAF to join the tactical and civil radar systems into one. Until Sept 11, US civil and military radar system were separated!

Swiss civil and military (tactical) radar is merged too. Civil or military ATC can initiate a scramble of F/A-18s.

And looks like Malaysian Air force seem to have more radar data than they currently disclose. All they say is that they are analyzing data.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:00
  #883 (permalink)  
 
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Would any data stream collected by the engine manufacturers or the aircraft maintainers contain positional information ?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:00
  #884 (permalink)  
 
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A Singapore Sub operating near the Malaysian east coast [at the time?] at 30/70m water depth?

He is pulling your leg lah.

You obviously don't know the sensitive dynamic between Malaysia and Singapore.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:02
  #885 (permalink)  
 
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flyboy328, You're right.
Seems like people always confuse the ELT's with the acoustic locater beacons. Two different things. One's for locating an aircraft lost on land, the other is for one lost on water. One uses radio, and the other uses sound.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:02
  #886 (permalink)  
 
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Ex-ATCO input.

Airfield search radars do not need to operate at long range: 60 or so will suffice.
Military and Civil Area control radars used to work out to much longer ranges - up to 120/150 in my day.
Air Defence radars work to even longer (classified) ranges.
Those are primary radar ranges ... SSR coverage will be similar.

As noted (and illustrated in a link) previously, Malaysian coastal (Air Defence?) radars reached almost to the Vietnam coastline at the FLs we are looking at.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:03
  #887 (permalink)  
 
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It is probably worthwhile noting that elt beacons are not the same as the underwater beacons attached to the CVR/FDR or similar. The former has a totally different frequency range (not sure about its water penetration and a quick search was shy to talk about max depths) and a much shorter battery life I.e. http://v5.books.elsevier.com/booksca...0750681377.pdf and the underwater beacons can work for over a month at up to 6 km deep (if that is the rating the reality might be better) http://rjeint.com/pdf/DK120.PDF plus the methods of activation are different. I don't know how rugged they are, if there was a colossal explosion or impact in flight, as to whether they would survive no matter what the spec sheets may imply.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:03
  #888 (permalink)  
 
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Well if these flotsam snaps and location charts are to be believed and they would need to have seen them close up, not from 1000's then it looks like the doomed airliner hardly turned around but headed 40degs port in it's dying minutes. Hope they keep floating long enough til first light and get some part/serial numbers of the bits.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:09
  #889 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
Object suspected of belonging to missing plane found Vietnamís Civil Aviation Authority says a navy plane has found parts suspected of belonging to the Malaysian Airlines plane, Reuters reports.
Parts of tail and door? Keen for further information.
US NBC news report says that these items are not from MH370. Not the further information that we had hoped to hear.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:14
  #890 (permalink)  
 
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From the Washington Post, the sequentially issued tickets to the two individuals with the stolen passports were sold by a travel agent in Pattaya Thailand. No information on routing from Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur. Subsequent itinerary was Kuala Lumpur to Beijing to Amsterdam. At Amsterdam, one individual booked to Copenhagen, the other to Frankfurt. Seems like a circuitous routing to their final destination.

Would not immigration officials at Schiphol receive a passenger manifest of the incoming flight, and check that manifest against a database of reported passport losses, and identify that individual for special attention on entry?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:17
  #891 (permalink)  
 
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SaturnV ... Depends on how intelligent the false passport bearers are, and what story they were told by the passport producer/seller as they handed over large numbers of baht.

Many illegals get picked up at passport checks ... that doesn't stop others following the same route, losing their money in the process.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:18
  #892 (permalink)  
 
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Would not immigration officials at Schiphol receive a passenger manifest of the incoming flight, and check that manifest against a database of reported passport losses, and identify that individual for special attention on entry?
No they would not, there is no such requirement in Europe or anywhere else but the US.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:19
  #893 (permalink)  
 
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Sea current

earth :: an animated map of global wind and weather - the prevailing current below the last reported position MH370 would carry debris towards the east coast of Malaysia.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:22
  #894 (permalink)  
 
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Don't think this qualifies as a Singapore Submarine!



Like I said filter out the BS.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:23
  #895 (permalink)  
 
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Chilling words...

The cumulative effects of system malfunctions, reduced longitudinal stability, increased angle-of-attack in the turn, supersonic speed, high altitude and other factors imposed forces on the airframe that exceeded flight control authority and the Stability Augmentation System's ability to restore control. Everything seemed to unfold in slow motion. I learned later the time from event onset to catastrophic departure from controlled flight was only 2-3 seconds. Still trying to communicate with Jim, I blacked out, succumbing to extremely high g-forces. Then the SR-71. . literally. . disintegrated around us. From that point, I was just along for the ride. And my next recollection was a hazy thought that I was having a bad dream. Maybe I'll wake up and get out of this mess, I mused. Gradually regaining consciousness, I realized this was no dream; it had really happened. That also was disturbing, because I COULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED what had just happened.
You Must Read This Test Pilot's Story of an SR-71 Disintegrating During Flight | Gizmodo UK
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:34
  #896 (permalink)  
 
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Re Amsterdam and use of API/PNR data, I couldn't see anything newer than this. Answer to a written question - Use of PNR in the Netherlands - E-007686/2011

Of course, if the power makers had extracted their digits earlier ...? http://www.defenceweb.co.za/media/ju...mas_Marten.pps and http://www.worldtek.com/wp-content/u...mas-Marten.pdf

Readded NL does have API requirements as verified on sites such as Emirates.com. Delivery announcement-http://www.arinc.com/news/press_releases/2012/03-13-12_arinc_delivers_apis.html

Last edited by luoto; 9th Mar 2014 at 15:44. Reason: Added second SITA linkx2 and API info
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:34
  #897 (permalink)  
 
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Summary of Previous 46 Pages of Discussion

Since the first post on this thread, the following information has been received:

Aircraft missing.

Everything else is interesting reading, but sheds absolutely no light on what has happened.

OK, back to the chatter...
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:36
  #898 (permalink)  
 
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I've been led to believe by our in house security folks that these days in many parts of the world your passport is more valuable to a thief than your wallet ( that's certainly correct in my case ).

Before getting bogged down on the significance of these passports to this flight is it worth considering how many passengers on widebody flights are travelling on false documents....right now?

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Mar 2014 at 16:41.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:40
  #899 (permalink)  
 
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I only posted this because i think it describes what an in flight break up feels like... from someone that survived one. The A?C type to my mind doesn't matter... But if something like this happened to MH370... it sheds light on why there was no comms and probably how (fortunately) quick it could have been

RIP
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 15:42
  #900 (permalink)  
 
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False passports

Via BBC:
When an Air India plane crashed in Mangalore in 2010 en route from Dubai, with the loss of 158 lives, as many 10 fraudulent passports were recovered.
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