Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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Soundman
I'm not an ex Nimrod, but ex 771 819 Seaking SAR.
The reason is that it is really really difficult to spot things from the air at any distance.
We used to carry out Royal Navy Sea Drills in Falmouth Harbour for training aircrew in sea survival once a week. The "casualties" would be in single seat life rafts. These are coffin sized and dayglo orange sitting up about 60cm above sea level.
Even in smooth inshore waters it is astonishing how close you have to be to see them. We would fly out from RNAS Culdrose looking for them but often had to just fly towards the tender that looked after them just to get close enough to ID. This was on smooth inshore water.
Yes, if you flew higher in the P3 your horizon would be greater, but the cleared swath of sea checked would be no wider, and slightly less well checked.
To give an idea, in a Seaking I would expect to be flying a 60kts or less and 200ft or less if looking for small objects
I'm not an ex Nimrod, but ex 771 819 Seaking SAR.
The reason is that it is really really difficult to spot things from the air at any distance.
We used to carry out Royal Navy Sea Drills in Falmouth Harbour for training aircrew in sea survival once a week. The "casualties" would be in single seat life rafts. These are coffin sized and dayglo orange sitting up about 60cm above sea level.
Even in smooth inshore waters it is astonishing how close you have to be to see them. We would fly out from RNAS Culdrose looking for them but often had to just fly towards the tender that looked after them just to get close enough to ID. This was on smooth inshore water.
Yes, if you flew higher in the P3 your horizon would be greater, but the cleared swath of sea checked would be no wider, and slightly less well checked.
To give an idea, in a Seaking I would expect to be flying a 60kts or less and 200ft or less if looking for small objects
Last edited by Tourist; 26th Mar 2014 at 19:17.
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LoneWolf_50
Predator Sea Avenger, but as Pontius pointed out what assets are available in that area to launch it, only a thought for more on station search time.
Predator Sea Avenger, but as Pontius pointed out what assets are available in that area to launch it, only a thought for more on station search time.
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Do you really think there's a TV crew out there 4 hours off shore taking pictures of the aircraft while they are searching?
The two arguments go against each other:
1. Big fully loaded aircraft "crashes" and breaks apart
2. Practically no debris located
1. Big fully loaded aircraft "crashes" and breaks apart
2. Practically no debris located
No counter argument for either against the other.
Improving the inmarsat data.
To improve the precision of the inmarsat data two things could be done:
1. Hand the data over to some radio astronomers. Their toolset for dealing with signals is outstanding.
2. Fly a calibration flight. Charter a long range bizjet with the same class of sat terminal fitted. Communicate over the bird throughout the flight down the calculated MH370 path. Capture this data and process it. Refine the MH370 calcs based on this.
1. Hand the data over to some radio astronomers. Their toolset for dealing with signals is outstanding.
2. Fly a calibration flight. Charter a long range bizjet with the same class of sat terminal fitted. Communicate over the bird throughout the flight down the calculated MH370 path. Capture this data and process it. Refine the MH370 calcs based on this.
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Tourist`s post "For those that think a 777 could not land in one piece on the water ".
The Hudson glider experience proves it can be done, but and that`s a big BUT, subject to:
The Hudson glider experience proves it can be done, but and that`s a big BUT, subject to:
However, I am not sure the question is whether it can be in "1 piece" or not. It is whether it will remain intact enough to sink without much trace, or whether it will disintegrate to such an extent that light debris, even bodies, will remain floating to be found.
I have little doubt that a 777 could be ditched without the cabin (where the light stuff is) disintegrating, and thus sinking without trace. Whether that happened here ???
RE: Improving the Inmarsat data. by UnreliableSource
From TMF Associates MSS blog which is one of the links previously posted.
"Last week Inmarsat performed an analysis of pings received from other aircraft flying in the Indian Ocean region to confirm that this effect is consistent across all of these planes and therefore concluded that MH370 must have been to the south of the satellite at the time of the last ping, not to its north."
So, I think this in essence "calibrated" the data and the mathematical analysis.
"Last week Inmarsat performed an analysis of pings received from other aircraft flying in the Indian Ocean region to confirm that this effect is consistent across all of these planes and therefore concluded that MH370 must have been to the south of the satellite at the time of the last ping, not to its north."
So, I think this in essence "calibrated" the data and the mathematical analysis.
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How big is an escape slide?
I'm not connected with the aviation industry other than as a frequent passenger and a fascination with anything aeronautic so please excuse what may be a basic question.
How big are the escape slides on the 777 and similar aircraft when fully inflated?
Just wondering if perhaps these may be what is being seen from the satellites and they are getting blown about making them hard to locate from the surface.
How big are the escape slides on the 777 and similar aircraft when fully inflated?
Just wondering if perhaps these may be what is being seen from the satellites and they are getting blown about making them hard to locate from the surface.
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If the plane had broken up, there would be 'lots of lifejackets floating around, as they inflate when they hit water'.
The lifejackets do not inflate automatically!!!
ABC news Australia reports the 120 objects are within a 400 sq kilometre area.
Given the cloud cover there are/were probably more items in the area.
So the density distribution could be 1 piece per 2 square kilometres.
The air search should find something given density in this field? Or would the area have expanded greatly whilst drifting since the images were taken?
Given the cloud cover there are/were probably more items in the area.
So the density distribution could be 1 piece per 2 square kilometres.
The air search should find something given density in this field? Or would the area have expanded greatly whilst drifting since the images were taken?
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Radar satellites
I have spent a fair amount of time going through Tomnod images, and there is a lot of clouds out there.
There are a large number of radar satellites out there, mostly operated by government bodies (DOD, NASA, Canada, etc.) but also a few private companies. These have resolutions good enough to spot some of this flotsam. They can be operated day and night, and can see through the clouds. Anyone hear any rumors of these being used over the search areas?
There are a large number of radar satellites out there, mostly operated by government bodies (DOD, NASA, Canada, etc.) but also a few private companies. These have resolutions good enough to spot some of this flotsam. They can be operated day and night, and can see through the clouds. Anyone hear any rumors of these being used over the search areas?
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Odds of aviation halon bottles floating ashore ?
Actually I'm asking about the frequency of (emptied ?) commercial aviation (including Boeing) fire suppression bottles floating ashore, in this particular case in the northern Maldives. Coincidence ? I'm not so sure, despite all the emphasis on the southern arc theory and the fact that after the sighting of numerous objects, none of these have so far been related to MH370. In particular also after having re-read the initial official reports that MH 370 disappeared from military radar heading in a westerly direction towards India.
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Albatros
Do you really think that two very old aircraft are a more valid comparison than Sully in the river?
The 777 is a tank as has been proved by various recent accidents.
The airframe does not have to be immaculate to sink with little trace, merely hold onto its larger parts (wings/tail) and the pressure hull must be sufficiently intact to retain all the poor buggers inside plus cushions. That is not outwith the bounds of possibility.
p.s. Can the people who keep saying that water is as hard as concrete at speed please stop being silly. It gets no harder at any speed. It is still water. If you fire a pistol into water the bullets penetrate a couple of feet. Try that with concrete.
Do you really think that two very old aircraft are a more valid comparison than Sully in the river?
The 777 is a tank as has been proved by various recent accidents.
The airframe does not have to be immaculate to sink with little trace, merely hold onto its larger parts (wings/tail) and the pressure hull must be sufficiently intact to retain all the poor buggers inside plus cushions. That is not outwith the bounds of possibility.
p.s. Can the people who keep saying that water is as hard as concrete at speed please stop being silly. It gets no harder at any speed. It is still water. If you fire a pistol into water the bullets penetrate a couple of feet. Try that with concrete.
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Do you really think there's a TV crew out there 4 hours off shore taking pictures of the aircraft while they are searching?
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debris field- not a given
yes while it may not be in one piece,assuming there will be a massive debris field is just that- an assumption.One must keep an open mind.The possibility of the fuselage remaining largely intact and sinking cannot be ruled out until some of the sighted debris has been identified as mh370.And as tourist says, the 777 is a tank.For any 777 drivers out there-would the fly by wire system and associated protections keep the plane in the flight envelope after fuel starvation and flameout (with a/p engaged and both pilots incapacitated)?Could this have led to an impact with a low vertical speed component and an airspeed just above stall speed?
Last edited by minimaman; 26th Mar 2014 at 21:43.
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Mine? or Fire Bottle?
HaveeruOnline - Unknown object 'likely' aircraft fire suppression bottle, claim experts
"Unknown object 'likely' aircraft fire suppression bottle, claim experts"
"Unknown object 'likely' aircraft fire suppression bottle, claim experts"
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and guestimating the altitude.
in another the pilot in the interview said they were down at 300.