Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Should the passenger emergency air be able to maintain life in a decompression at the maximum altitude achievable by the aircraft?
And just how long would you plan on being able to sustain life for at FL400 with no cabin pressure? Where would you store all the extra oxygen that would require?
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MickJoeBill
Is a live camera view of the cockpit that can be viewed by cabin crew or passengers out of the question?
Or recordings via a secure link that cannot be turned off in flight manually, with its own independent power supply, collected data to be stored at a central base then deleted at an appropriate time subject to any events being recorded that may require future investigation.
Is a live camera view of the cockpit that can be viewed by cabin crew or passengers out of the question?
Or recordings via a secure link that cannot be turned off in flight manually, with its own independent power supply, collected data to be stored at a central base then deleted at an appropriate time subject to any events being recorded that may require future investigation.
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@F14
Highly unlikely that 238 pax then sat about for 7 hours without attempting and succeeding in breaking down the door to the Flight Deck and/or communicating with ground via alternate means.... Confident there were at least 238 operational cell phones/tablets and other such devices on board.
More importantly and this is an answer a MH crew member would give as to what is the protocol followed by that carrier when one of the crew leaves the deck for a leak....
As in all accidents post the human tragedy it is important the cause is determined to avoid re occurrence.
Highly unlikely that 238 pax then sat about for 7 hours without attempting and succeeding in breaking down the door to the Flight Deck and/or communicating with ground via alternate means.... Confident there were at least 238 operational cell phones/tablets and other such devices on board.
More importantly and this is an answer a MH crew member would give as to what is the protocol followed by that carrier when one of the crew leaves the deck for a leak....
As in all accidents post the human tragedy it is important the cause is determined to avoid re occurrence.
Props are for boats!
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Mountain snake,
What about the humble fisherman at Kota Bahru? Anyone actually discounted his police report yet. Was the Kota Bahru Airport still open at 1:30 am. It says on wiki it closes at 12:00 midnight and may stay open for delayed departures.
I fact there were multiple sightings on the North Malaysian. Coast Gulf of Thailand.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...essages/129362
It seems to me that we've relied to much on technology, to get to the current search zone and there seems to be a total discount of what these people saw.
The majority of air accidents are seen or heard first technology comes second.
Don't discount the Mark 1 eyeball!!
What about the humble fisherman at Kota Bahru? Anyone actually discounted his police report yet. Was the Kota Bahru Airport still open at 1:30 am. It says on wiki it closes at 12:00 midnight and may stay open for delayed departures.
I fact there were multiple sightings on the North Malaysian. Coast Gulf of Thailand.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...essages/129362
It seems to me that we've relied to much on technology, to get to the current search zone and there seems to be a total discount of what these people saw.
The majority of air accidents are seen or heard first technology comes second.
Don't discount the Mark 1 eyeball!!
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@Uncle Fred
this is pretty close to the current conditions, 4-5m swell in the southern ocean. Vessel is 95m long. Think the current winds are a little stronger then this day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9G-QxYXE4I
this is pretty close to the current conditions, 4-5m swell in the southern ocean. Vessel is 95m long. Think the current winds are a little stronger then this day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9G-QxYXE4I
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4-5m swell in the southern ocean
Swell in that area is usually generated by sub-polar lows or tropical cyclones to the North. It travels thousands of kilometres from origin. The weather at any mid-latitude is mostly unrelated to the swell.
In a previous career I monitored and reported on sea and swell in the Western Australian littoral - particularly off Perth and in the North-West.
Last edited by Mahatma Kote; 26th Mar 2014 at 09:43.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We know the FO had invited passengers on to the flight deck.
Based on that I would expect either:
a. Someone to admit that the FO had done this frequently.
b. Admit that several pilots did this from time to time.
c. Admit the company knew the FO had done this and issued him a formal warning.
d. Deny they knew the FO had done this.
e. Admit the door was left open routinely when one left the flight deck.
f. Deny the door was left open routinely when one left the flight deck.
Now I don't hold with the conspiracy theorists but this is a strange thing that as far as I know MAS has made no such statement.
g. We might also ask he the Captain and FO flown together previously? We know the FO was a recent convert to the 777 so we may deduce that any previous flight together was either in the distant past (737) or recently (777).
Now that is a conspiracy of silence or just plain lack of thought.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 26th Mar 2014 at 09:35.
F14 highly unlikely the FO or Captain couldn't get back in. Without going into details you can gain access UNLESS the person inside doesn't want you to.
The people that need to know the code, know the code.
The people that need to know the code, know the code.
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@ Pontius
Good points regarding protocol. I would expect the company to deny all points and even if management had addressed the issues, that would be between the flight crew and management and not to be aired in public as dirty laundry and under normal circumstances I would agree. However MAS probably need to be seen as being proactive and show internal audits are in place to re-assure customers.
Put quite simply, it is cost prohibitive to have an extra crew member for each flight so if it MH370 turns out to be anything other than a catastrophic failure, then other measures probably need to looked at. As you say, we learn from mistakes.
Put quite simply, it is cost prohibitive to have an extra crew member for each flight so if it MH370 turns out to be anything other than a catastrophic failure, then other measures probably need to looked at. As you say, we learn from mistakes.
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Search Area Weather Prediction
Although they are just on the edge of the search zone these model predictions give some idea of probable weather changes affecting the search area.
Click on each image for better resolution.
Prediction quality is inversely proportional to time in future
10-day BoM ACCESS model weather forecast of isobars and rain
Click on each image for better resolution.
Prediction quality is inversely proportional to time in future
10-day BoM ACCESS model weather forecast of isobars and rain
Last edited by Mahatma Kote; 26th Mar 2014 at 09:52.
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nitpicker330 F14 highly unlikely the FO or Captain couldn't get back in. Without going into details you can gain access UNLESS the person inside doesn't want you to.
The people that need to know the code, know the code.
The people that need to know the code, know the code.
(1) No checking in with Vietnamese after clearing Malaysian airspace
(2) Transponder and ACARS turned off at this point
(3) Turning off track
(4) No Mayday call
(5) Possible height excursion
Whether one of the pilots has fire-axed the other or locked him out and depressurised the aircraft remains to be seen. I would be astonished if this is not a criminal act.
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I can assure you the people, who should know the code, don't necessarily know the code. Many airlines, routinely leave the cockpit single crew, when another pilot take a break or a comfort stop.
The second point I made, was the code may have been changed as part of a company specific security protocol and not propagated to the crew via communication or in the tech log. Due to familiarity/aircraft change or rushing, the code not confirmed or checked pre departure. All these elements have human factors related threats.
Sensible airlines never leave the cockpit single crew. This is not an industry wide procedure though.
There is also a huge difference between suicide and mass murder and torture. Sorry but these pilot profiles, don't point towards this.
The second point I made, was the code may have been changed as part of a company specific security protocol and not propagated to the crew via communication or in the tech log. Due to familiarity/aircraft change or rushing, the code not confirmed or checked pre departure. All these elements have human factors related threats.
Sensible airlines never leave the cockpit single crew. This is not an industry wide procedure though.
There is also a huge difference between suicide and mass murder and torture. Sorry but these pilot profiles, don't point towards this.
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Past E & E Bay Fires
FACTUAL DATA.
Notes; 'Blankets' refers to the PET acoustic/thermal insulation. AD 2008-23-09 calls for removal of PET (aka Mylar-AN-26) by Dec 2016.)
4/8/2010. Cathay 747, Reg # B-HOV > “Burnt” Blankets in avionics compartment. Cause; electrical short. Source; BEA (Bureau d' Enquetes et d' Analyses) Report on B-HOV. BEA Report Link > http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/hs-l...l100318.en.pdf
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3/18/2010. Thai 747, Reg # HS-TGL. Burnt Blankets in avionics compartment. Cause; electrical short. Source: BEA (Bureau d' Enquetes et d' Analyses) Report on HS-TGL. - BEA Report Link > http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/hs-l...l100318.en.pdf
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2/26/2007. United 777. Blankets “ignited” at P 200 panel in E & E bay. Blanket type; PET-Mylar- AN-26. Source; AAIB Report # 2/2009. BEA Report Link > http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/hs-l...l100318.en.pdf AD Link > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...2008-23-09.pdf
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11/15/2004. British Airways 777. Fire in E&E bay. Cause; arcing at external power terminals. Source; NTSB Safety Recommendation Letter A-07-113-116. Letter Link > http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletter...07_113_116.pdf
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7/6/2004. United 777. “Thermal Damage” Blankets in E&E bay. No Cause. Source NTSB Safety Recommendation Letter A-07-113-116, ref 2. Letter Link > http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletter...07_113_116.pdf
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3/28/2004. Continental 757. Fire damage to structure in E&E bay. Cause; wire arcing. Source; SDR # & Link CALA0400292. Source; SDR Query Link > FAA :: SDR Reporting [Service Difficulty Report Query Page] enter SDR # and run query.
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11/1/1999. Carrier not given, 737-500. Wiring fire in E & E bay. . No cause. Source; U.K. (MOR) Mandatory Occurrence Reporting report 199907499. Reference to page 35 of AAIB Aircraft Accident Report 5/2000. “Significant Electrical Arcing Events”. AAIB Rpt - Link > http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0%20N653UA.pdf
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11/28/1998. Foreign 747. “Film (blanket) Consumed in the fire” in E & E bay. Cause; wire arcing. Source; AAIB Bulletin No: 6/99 EW/C98/11/7. Link > AAIB Link > Air Accidents Investigation: Boeing 501413
------------------------------
1/9/1998. United 767. Wiring Fire in E & E bay. Cause, arcing. Wire insulation ETFE and Kapton. Source; AAIB report 5/2000. AAIB Link > http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0%20N653UA.pdf
-------------------------
10/10/94. ‘Beijing’ 737. Blankets on fire in E & E bay. Cause; wire short. No NTSB report Source; FAA Tech Center Report DOT/FAA/AR-97/58. Report Link > Tech Report Link > http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar97-58.pdf Example 2.
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End
Notes; 'Blankets' refers to the PET acoustic/thermal insulation. AD 2008-23-09 calls for removal of PET (aka Mylar-AN-26) by Dec 2016.)
4/8/2010. Cathay 747, Reg # B-HOV > “Burnt” Blankets in avionics compartment. Cause; electrical short. Source; BEA (Bureau d' Enquetes et d' Analyses) Report on B-HOV. BEA Report Link > http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/hs-l...l100318.en.pdf
--------------------
3/18/2010. Thai 747, Reg # HS-TGL. Burnt Blankets in avionics compartment. Cause; electrical short. Source: BEA (Bureau d' Enquetes et d' Analyses) Report on HS-TGL. - BEA Report Link > http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/hs-l...l100318.en.pdf
-----------------------
2/26/2007. United 777. Blankets “ignited” at P 200 panel in E & E bay. Blanket type; PET-Mylar- AN-26. Source; AAIB Report # 2/2009. BEA Report Link > http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/hs-l...l100318.en.pdf AD Link > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...2008-23-09.pdf
--------------------------
11/15/2004. British Airways 777. Fire in E&E bay. Cause; arcing at external power terminals. Source; NTSB Safety Recommendation Letter A-07-113-116. Letter Link > http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletter...07_113_116.pdf
---------------------
7/6/2004. United 777. “Thermal Damage” Blankets in E&E bay. No Cause. Source NTSB Safety Recommendation Letter A-07-113-116, ref 2. Letter Link > http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletter...07_113_116.pdf
----------------------
3/28/2004. Continental 757. Fire damage to structure in E&E bay. Cause; wire arcing. Source; SDR # & Link CALA0400292. Source; SDR Query Link > FAA :: SDR Reporting [Service Difficulty Report Query Page] enter SDR # and run query.
----------------------
11/1/1999. Carrier not given, 737-500. Wiring fire in E & E bay. . No cause. Source; U.K. (MOR) Mandatory Occurrence Reporting report 199907499. Reference to page 35 of AAIB Aircraft Accident Report 5/2000. “Significant Electrical Arcing Events”. AAIB Rpt - Link > http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0%20N653UA.pdf
---------------------
11/28/1998. Foreign 747. “Film (blanket) Consumed in the fire” in E & E bay. Cause; wire arcing. Source; AAIB Bulletin No: 6/99 EW/C98/11/7. Link > AAIB Link > Air Accidents Investigation: Boeing 501413
------------------------------
1/9/1998. United 767. Wiring Fire in E & E bay. Cause, arcing. Wire insulation ETFE and Kapton. Source; AAIB report 5/2000. AAIB Link > http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0%20N653UA.pdf
-------------------------
10/10/94. ‘Beijing’ 737. Blankets on fire in E & E bay. Cause; wire short. No NTSB report Source; FAA Tech Center Report DOT/FAA/AR-97/58. Report Link > Tech Report Link > http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar97-58.pdf Example 2.
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End
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press conference
The rep ports above are a worry. I saw the Halifax doco how Mylar burned. Why do people have an issue with the idea that something like this might have occurred.
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Malaysia "Bruised" by the Press ?
Sturdy riposte to a question at the Press conference about Malaysia's future after such a "bruising" by the press, the Acting Transport Minister reminded the audience that, in an unprecedented incident such as this, not many countries, particularly in SE Asia, could have brought together 26 countries, to help and co-operate as they are doing. He believes that in the end history will judge them well.
Fact is we live in a Hollywood-influenced world where you can save the whole planet from asteroids inside 90 minutes so long as Bruce Willis or Morgan Freeman is involved. Perhaps it's time for critics to moderate their expectations.
Fact is we live in a Hollywood-influenced world where you can save the whole planet from asteroids inside 90 minutes so long as Bruce Willis or Morgan Freeman is involved. Perhaps it's time for critics to moderate their expectations.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
They didn't; as far as I know they simply ignored it. Of course the answer there might be they didn't want a blame-game witch hunt early in the search phase.
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I can assure you the people, who should know the code, don't necessarily know the code. Many airlines, routinely leave the cockpit single crew, when another pilot take a break or a comfort stop.
Whether you subscribe to one of the pilots committing this act or not, the fact remains that the transponder and ACARS were switched off. Whether it's hijack or pilot suicide, those items were disabled for a reason as was the absence of a radio call to Vietnam on airspace transition.