Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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Telling the world your problems comes naturally to some cultures , to others its not such a natural reaction . He would feel very comfortable flying in this airspace , at this time of night he may have even felt he owned it to a certain extent . Maybe he thought turn it around and get it on the ground ASAP and talk later but time run out .
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Ngineer:You guys are serious right?? A fire developed, the crew failed to declare an emergency, switched off the ATC and ACARS, then the plane flew for 7 hours down the Indian Ocean??
Yeah mods, keep that one going.
Yeah mods, keep that one going.
Last edited by Coagie; 24th Mar 2014 at 04:34.
Props are for boats!
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Selfin,
These tracks whether they are magnetic or true. May all be inconsequential if the new Altitudes found to be 12000' or less. The B777 fuel burn and TAS would be totally different making the current search area too far away now.
Capt Kremin (#7676, 24th 0211Z), the posted tracks do not take account of wind. For the 197M constant magnetic track coordinates: text, kmz.
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It appears to me that the Lithium-Ion battery discussion is unrelated to the disappearance of MH370. The battery issue should be discussed in the tech forum, not here. A fire scenario has been eliminated as a possibility in this forum unless I've missed something.
The battery discussion obfuscates the discussion of the potential scenarios, it is a red herring.
The battery discussion obfuscates the discussion of the potential scenarios, it is a red herring.
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As per the confirmed report the flight took on board 53 tons of fuel at KUL.
Query: would this include the reserve fuel from prior sector of aircraft on board or the fresh uptake only?
If it is the fresh uptake only would that not add about 800 km or another hour to the flight being calculated?
Assuming another 800 km range and the aircraft continued to fly south from where the last ping to IMERSAT, is there sattelite coverage in that area to pick up subsequent pings 30 minutes later or this really the black hole as being described.
Thank you
Query: would this include the reserve fuel from prior sector of aircraft on board or the fresh uptake only?
If it is the fresh uptake only would that not add about 800 km or another hour to the flight being calculated?
Assuming another 800 km range and the aircraft continued to fly south from where the last ping to IMERSAT, is there sattelite coverage in that area to pick up subsequent pings 30 minutes later or this really the black hole as being described.
Thank you
At 14000..14500 lbs/hr, not only is that not enough fuel for 800 km beyond the last ping, but seems barely enough just to get _to_ the last ping.
Even if extra fuel were available, extra 800 km would not suffice to fly out of range of the satellite. It is supposed to provide coverage all the way to the Antarctic, several hours further away.
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Does anyone else get the distinct impression, that after several days of the most intensive air and sea search effort since AF447, in which virtually nothing of real interest has been found - apart from pallets that could have come from anywhere, plus a few indistinct satellite pics that have failed to produce anything of value - that they're most definitely looking in the wrong area? 
It's starting to appear obvious that the aircraft either went quite a bit further than estimated (lower fuel burn due to reduced power settings? - plus quite a few miles of glide after flameout?) - or it dropped into the ocean quite a bit earlier than the current search zone, and the current search zone needs to be re-assessed?
I'm also questioning, whether any large aircraft ever ditched without breaking up, and releasing at least some seating, luggage, freight items, composite structure materials that float, and give away the disaster zone?
Is the 777 that robust, that its tank-like build saw it penetrate the water at a little over stall speed, and at a low angle, that it just ploughed under, in virtually one piece?
I understand the engines would have sheared from their pylons on impact, but we have no previous ditching event specifically involving a 777 that we can refer to, to get any idea of what would happen, because there's never been a 777 lost in this way before.
It's starting to appear obvious that the aircraft either went quite a bit further than estimated (lower fuel burn due to reduced power settings? - plus quite a few miles of glide after flameout?) - or it dropped into the ocean quite a bit earlier than the current search zone, and the current search zone needs to be re-assessed?
I'm also questioning, whether any large aircraft ever ditched without breaking up, and releasing at least some seating, luggage, freight items, composite structure materials that float, and give away the disaster zone?
Is the 777 that robust, that its tank-like build saw it penetrate the water at a little over stall speed, and at a low angle, that it just ploughed under, in virtually one piece?
I understand the engines would have sheared from their pylons on impact, but we have no previous ditching event specifically involving a 777 that we can refer to, to get any idea of what would happen, because there's never been a 777 lost in this way before.
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Just up in the Aus Media (newspapers)
Beijing: Chinese aircrew have spotted "suspicious objects" in the southern Indian Ocean in the search for vanished Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, the official Xinhua news agency says.
It gave no immediate further details, but an earlier Xinhua report said a Chinese military plane set off early on Monday from Perth to seek "suspicious debris" floating in the remote waters captured by satellite imagery.
More to come.
Beijing: Chinese aircrew have spotted "suspicious objects" in the southern Indian Ocean in the search for vanished Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, the official Xinhua news agency says.
It gave no immediate further details, but an earlier Xinhua report said a Chinese military plane set off early on Monday from Perth to seek "suspicious debris" floating in the remote waters captured by satellite imagery.
More to come.
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From another source with co ordinates
The “white and square” objects were spotted by searchers aboard a Chinese Ilyushin-76 plane, it said.
“The crew has reported the coordinates - 95.1113 degrees east and 42.5453 south - to the Australian command centre as well as Chinese icebreaker Xuelong, which is en route to the sea area,” Xinhua said.
The “white and square” objects were spotted by searchers aboard a Chinese Ilyushin-76 plane, it said.
“The crew has reported the coordinates - 95.1113 degrees east and 42.5453 south - to the Australian command centre as well as Chinese icebreaker Xuelong, which is en route to the sea area,” Xinhua said.
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Does anyone else get the distinct impression, that after several days of the most intensive air and sea search effort since AF447, in which virtually nothing of real interest has been found - apart from pallets that could have come from anywhere, plus a few indistinct satellite pics that have failed to produce anything of value - that they're most definitely looking in the wrong area?
It's starting to appear obvious that the aircraft either went quite a bit further than estimated (lower fuel burn due to reduced power settings? - plus quite a few miles of glide after flameout?) - or it dropped into the ocean quite a bit earlier than the current search zone, and the current search zone needs to be re-assessed?
It's starting to appear obvious that the aircraft either went quite a bit further than estimated (lower fuel burn due to reduced power settings? - plus quite a few miles of glide after flameout?) - or it dropped into the ocean quite a bit earlier than the current search zone, and the current search zone needs to be re-assessed?
The area they are looking in is pretty strongly restricted by two "statements". Statement 1: according to Inmarsat, the aircraft was still in the air at the 40 degree arc 7.5 hours into the flight. Statement 2: Australians have a powerful over-the-horizon radar system that can track aircraft as far as 1000 NM west of its west coast, and may or may not reach much further.
Unfortunately, Australians are refusing to say whether they saw MH370 on their radars. Logic would dictate that either (a) they did not and they are looking for it in the area beyond the range of their radars, or (b) they did and it went down roughly in the area where they are looking. If it's (b), then we're wrong and they are right and sooner or later they'll find it there. If it's (a), things are more interesting.
Your proposed options don't really work. It could not go much further or drop much sooner along the same heading, if both statements above are true.
Furthermore, "Statement 1" is the only reason anyone is even looking in the south Indian Ocean. If we reject it in whole or in parts, MH370 can be anywhere - it could be on an abandoned landing strip in Somalia, it could be on the bottom of the Bay of Bengal, etc. etc., but south Indian Ocean would be very far down anyone's list of places to look for it.
If we accept "Statement 1" but also assume that MH370 is NOT in south Indian Ocean (due to the spectacular failure to find any trace of it there), it has to be along the northern arc. (And, since much of the northern arc is in mainland China and you'd expect the Chinese, of all people, to be 110% sure that it never got into their country, that limits options to Central Asia and Burma.)
Props are for boats!
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hamster3null,
What Flight level is your fuel burn based on. Reports are coming out now that the aircraft dropped to 12000' or lower after its turn back. Surely this would reduce the distance covered and make this current search area way too far away now. Also making the 40 degree SAT IOR range ring handshakes much closer to the equator than previously thought.
At 14000..14500 lbs/hr, not only is that not enough fuel for 800 km beyond the last ping, but seems barely enough just to get _to_ the last ping.
Last edited by Sheep Guts; 24th Mar 2014 at 05:33.
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propduffer: It appears to me that the Lithium-Ion battery discussion is unrelated to the disappearance of MH370. The battery issue should be discussed in the tech forum, not here. A fire scenario has been eliminated as a possibility in this forum unless I've missed something.
I think they have the right search area due to the Inmarsat info and Captain Kremlin's work overlaid by the contrails from the weather satellite picture, but just because it isn't evident, that a fire, fumes, or decompression has anything to do with the disappearance now, doesn't mean it won't become clear how or if it does later. It's bad problem solving practice to rule out everything else, without accurate facts, just because you're anal retentive.
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If that wooden pallet had managed to float out of the sunken hull of MH370, wouldn't the satellites, Orions, Poseidons and ships observers be seeing some fields of little black rounded objects bobbing up and down on the ocean surface as well.....they are called mangosteens! 
.....suspicious objects????
.....suspicious objects????
Last edited by Kooljack; 24th Mar 2014 at 05:16. Reason: Additional comments
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I'm also questioning, whether any large aircraft ever ditched without breaking up, and releasing at least some seating, luggage, freight items, composite structure materials that float, and give away the disaster zone?
Is the 777 that robust, that its tank-like build saw it penetrate the water at a little over stall speed, and at a low angle, that it just ploughed under, in virtually one piece?
I understand the engines would have sheared from their pylons on impact, but we have no previous ditching event specifically involving a 777 that we can refer to, to get any idea of what would happen, because there's never been a 777 lost in this way before.
Is the 777 that robust, that its tank-like build saw it penetrate the water at a little over stall speed, and at a low angle, that it just ploughed under, in virtually one piece?
I understand the engines would have sheared from their pylons on impact, but we have no previous ditching event specifically involving a 777 that we can refer to, to get any idea of what would happen, because there's never been a 777 lost in this way before.
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Needle in a hay stack.....
Random Frustrated Thought: It seems like finding this plane is like looking for a needle in a hay stack, only the SAR Teams don't even know which hay stack to look in! 
I've seen more "credible" floating objects in the South China Sea on Tomnod than they've released to the media, including what appeared to be letters on something floating with an oil slick nearby. Media: *crickets* All eyes are on the South Indian Ocean
I've seen more "credible" floating objects in the South China Sea on Tomnod than they've released to the media, including what appeared to be letters on something floating with an oil slick nearby. Media: *crickets* All eyes are on the South Indian Ocean
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Hamster3null: In the event that the fire is so inconveniently located that it burns through the bulkheads separating the cargo hold from the passenger cabin, halon would leak through the holes and would fail as a fire suppressant, but it would not by itself kill anyone or displace oxygen anywhere.
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Random Frustrated Thought: It seems like finding this plane is like looking for a needle in a hay stack, only the SAR Teams don't even know which hay stack to look in!
I've seen more "credible" floating objects in the South China Sea on Tomnod than they've released to the media, including what appeared to be letters on something floating with an oil slick nearby. Media: *crickets* All eyes are on the South Indian Ocean
I've seen more "credible" floating objects in the South China Sea on Tomnod than they've released to the media, including what appeared to be letters on something floating with an oil slick nearby. Media: *crickets* All eyes are on the South Indian Ocean