Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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GarageYears
True. The arc we see is derived from the final ping and is not the track, on it somewhere is one point of the track.
Each time the ping occurred it defined a possible arc (i.e. the aircraft is somewhere on that arc? The next ping will give us another arc
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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....and TOPKIN, NISOK, SELSU and KETIV gets you 1,200NM from Perth.
After 7hr 30mins.
Straight along the line (after the turn around the top of Indonesia)
After 7hr 30mins.
Straight along the line (after the turn around the top of Indonesia)
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BOAC
My interpretation is that NTSB will be modelling the track of the aeroplane and comparing it to the ping data, as I have described previously. On the assumption that a constant heading (or a great circle) course at constant (or near constant) speed was maintained the ping data will rule out all but a small range of possible courses. We must presume that on those assumptions NTSB believe the track West of Australia is the post probable course. Of course, a complex course with changing headings and speeds could emulate the ping data, but given the search time available NTSB will have gone for the simplest solution.
I don't think we can parse the verbal statements of various officials to get closer to the unreleased ping data.
Originally Posted by RichardC10
The final handshake/ping data had to be released to convince everyone that the aeroplane was far South (or North) and definitely not in the South China Sea.
- please explain that assumption. Why could it not be ANYWHERE on the arcs? What specific information would be available to position the ping at the extremes?
The final handshake/ping data had to be released to convince everyone that the aeroplane was far South (or North) and definitely not in the South China Sea.
- please explain that assumption. Why could it not be ANYWHERE on the arcs? What specific information would be available to position the ping at the extremes?
A further puzzle - the Inmarsat man said that during the 7 hours the 'pings got longer', yet they started around the 40 and finished around the 40. Huh?
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Missing jet WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries: CEO of Malaysian Airlines finally admits to dangerous cargo four days after DENYING it
MH370 WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries admits CEO of Malaysian Airlines | Mail Online
How does this affect the thinking on the ‘cause’ of this aircraft being missing?
MH370 WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries admits CEO of Malaysian Airlines | Mail Online
How does this affect the thinking on the ‘cause’ of this aircraft being missing?
Can anyone who knows the layout of the 772 give a way that the fire from batteries as cargo in the hold would selectively disable the ACARS, SSR, ADS and VHF/HF but not disable the power to the low gain SATCOM all the way back near the tail? Then that severe fire would extinguish itself and allow the FMS HDG to operate faultlessly and the aircraft to fly for the next 7 hours. This does not seem logical the fire is so severe that it immediately disables a whole raft of duplicated systems but not severe enough to disable all systems or to cause the aircraft to crash.
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My interpretation is that NTSB will be modelling the track of the aeroplane and comparing it to the ping data, as I have described previously. On the assumption that a constant heading (or a great circle) course at constant (or near constant) speed was maintained the ping data will rule out all but a small range of possible courses.
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First Light
Originally Posted by multycpl
I take it that the search planes can fly in the dark !......So why take off at first light. If it takes 2 hrs to get onsite couldn't they leave 2 hours earlier ??
I take it that the search planes can fly in the dark !......So why take off at first light. If it takes 2 hrs to get onsite couldn't they leave 2 hours earlier ??
When is first light? Well there is civil twilight, nautical twilight and astronomical twilight, take your pick.
Today's time for Perth are
Astronomical twilight 5.00 a.m. local (GMT +8)
Nautical twilight 5.29 a.m.
Civil twilight 5.57 a.m.
Sunrise 6.21 a.m.
Now the search zone is at least 20 degrees West of Perth so Sunrise will 80 minutes later, however the search area is also further South than Perth and being Autumn in the Southern Hemisphere Sunrise will be even later.
So an aircraft leaving Perth at 5.00 a.m will be in the search area shortly after Dawn.
oxo
If you are using mk1 eyeballs to look for the debris, you don't want to be starting at dawn when there will be long shadows.
If you are using mk1 eyeballs to look for the debris, you don't want to be starting at dawn when there will be long shadows.
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navman
Quite so, I was expressing two options that might be modelled. On the line from Malaysia to West of Australia the great circle and constant heading courses to any particular point deviate by about 30km.
RichardC10 said
My interpretation is that NTSB will be modelling the track of the aeroplane and comparing it to the ping data, as I have described previously. On the assumption that a constant heading (or a great circle) course at constant (or near constant) speed was maintained the ping data will rule out all but a small range of possible courses.
A great circle is not, in general, a line of constant heading.
My interpretation is that NTSB will be modelling the track of the aeroplane and comparing it to the ping data, as I have described previously. On the assumption that a constant heading (or a great circle) course at constant (or near constant) speed was maintained the ping data will rule out all but a small range of possible courses.
A great circle is not, in general, a line of constant heading.
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Even though it seems that the ACARS had been disabled the FMC GPS's would probably have still been receiving signals from EGNOS or the MSAS satellite system, are these signals traceable ?
Last edited by Above The Clouds; 22nd Mar 2014 at 21:46. Reason: text
Freight God
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All you need is a Li-io based fire to burn the cables to the transponder and VHF3 antenna. Both go dead. And you certainly get some nice hotspot that potentially could burn a small hole into the fuselage.
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irony or symbolism
Is it ironic/symbolic that, 370 pages into this mystery, many posters here remain in complete & utter denial that the evidence available practically demands human intervention be the most likely cause???
Time will hopefully tell...
Time will hopefully tell...
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GPS receivers don't transmit!
Even though it seems that the ACARS had been disabled the FMC GPS's would probably still been sending and receiving signals to EGNOS or the MSAS satellite system, are these signals traceable ?
Caveat: almost all radio receivers emit low level signals (leaked local oscillator, digital system clock noise, etc). This is irrelevant to their being trackable except from very close (a few tens of meters).
Last edited by Mesoman; 22nd Mar 2014 at 20:33.
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Above The Clouds Even though it seems that the ACARS had been disabled the FMC GPS's would probably still been sending and receiving signals to EGNOS or the MSAS satellite system, are these signals traceable ?
To my understanding SBAS is a one way augmentation system, the GEOs just transmit the GPS corrections and they do not receive anything from the aircraft. Therefore MSAS or GAGAN, the two SBAS systems possibly covering the flight profile would not have 'seen' the aircraft. Furthermore, to my understanding very few 'high end' aircraft are fitted with SBAS receivers.
To my understanding SBAS is a one way augmentation system, the GEOs just transmit the GPS corrections and they do not receive anything from the aircraft. Therefore MSAS or GAGAN, the two SBAS systems possibly covering the flight profile would not have 'seen' the aircraft. Furthermore, to my understanding very few 'high end' aircraft are fitted with SBAS receivers.
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GNSS receiver - no, you rally can't track it
EGNOS and MSAS systems also use ground stations for signal correction, but don't keep banging your head it will hurt.
Are the Primary Radar Returns a Red Herring?
Until the public sees data that unequivocally shows a strong tie between the last SSR response and the Westbound primary track to the North of Aceh, we need to accommodate the possibility that MH370 took another track that ended up somewhere within an hour's flight time from the last ping arc.
That Westbound track is highly redolent of diversion. Perhaps the NTSB and/or AMSA are privy to data not shared with the public that supports this track.
That Westbound track is highly redolent of diversion. Perhaps the NTSB and/or AMSA are privy to data not shared with the public that supports this track.
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Mesoman
Stop banging your head on the wall.
I am asking because our aircraft are fitted with SBAS and depending on where RIMs station are located and if signals from geostationary satellites are being received, the transmission of some SBAS signals currently come from INMARSAT satellites, hence my question are they traceable I.E by INMARSAT.
Stop banging your head on the wall.
I am asking because our aircraft are fitted with SBAS and depending on where RIMs station are located and if signals from geostationary satellites are being received, the transmission of some SBAS signals currently come from INMARSAT satellites, hence my question are they traceable I.E by INMARSAT.
Last edited by Above The Clouds; 22nd Mar 2014 at 20:53. Reason: text
Crucifying the crew is par for the course in most cases. Nothing unusual there. And if no cause is found... guess who is to blame by default?
As for the sensor software question, I believe all critical systems (including FBW/FADEC) on the a/c were developed by isolated separate design teams in triplicate using the Ada-83 standard (and later rewritten in Ada-95) and use an n-version (n=3) voting system for agreement/disagreement.
I don't think any *Boeing* crash has ever been attributed to software issues (MMI issues are something else), and the architecture has been pretty well proven and refined over the years not unlike all other engineering processes.
As for the sensor software question, I believe all critical systems (including FBW/FADEC) on the a/c were developed by isolated separate design teams in triplicate using the Ada-83 standard (and later rewritten in Ada-95) and use an n-version (n=3) voting system for agreement/disagreement.
I don't think any *Boeing* crash has ever been attributed to software issues (MMI issues are something else), and the architecture has been pretty well proven and refined over the years not unlike all other engineering processes.
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Pings and tracks etc..
The graphic in post #5965 has further been updated with the positions of the LKP at IGARI and a possible PSR position at 1822z, that are interlinked to the possible backtrack position west of Banda Aceh.
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Everyone seems to be assuming a magic fire that can take out all the alternate communications - avoid the SATCOM and anything that prevents the aircraft flying normally - but depressurize the aircraft - and all before the hold fire warning and before the pilots notice and squawk or transmit Mayday.