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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:07
  #6041 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Simply Towers.
Posts: 3
Journalists showed themselves in their true light today. Appalling behaviour.
Seems the Captain must have been responsible now due to his flight sim files having been deleted.......talk about a bunch of idiots!
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:10
  #6042 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Deleted flight simulator data

There is an inference in the comments made at today's press conference, but what is needed are meaningful facts, not inferences.

CNN reports:
Malaysian politician: Flight 370 pilot supported me, but was no hijacker

Malaysia's Anwar Ibrahim: MH370 pilot supported me, but was no hijacker - CNN.com
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:11
  #6043 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Thailand
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Need to dump fuel?

If it were a fire, and they were attempting to land at a nearby airport, would they have needed to have dumped fuel before attempting the landing?

Aborted if there were no runway lights where they were attempting.

Perhaps hoping a military response would be mobilised to guide them somewhere else....

If they did dump fuel, how did they manage to keep flying for so long?

Not enough facts to go on.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:13
  #6044 (permalink)  
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No auto pilot or auto throttle, even a small amount of turbulence will change the attitude and/or course of the aircraft surely? The last position the trim system left the aircraft in would also have an influence. A slight climb and the speed will drop off and the aircraft will eventually stall, (it may even reach FL450!).
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:16
  #6045 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Waypoint Passage Debunked

Given the evasions in the presser ignoring the question on actual waypoint crossing there now is exposed the lack of any evidence whatsoever that waypoints were entered for the turn to the west. All we have it the aircraft turned to the west which is consistent with an attempt to land at the nearest airport which apparently failed possibly due to incapacitation and followed by continued powered flight in a Markov Chain Random Walk. Trim deteriorates with changes in weight, wind and other variables.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:17
  #6046 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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correct ?

The predicted flight path 'to the south' not being parallel to the lines of longitude presumably is because they're assuming a magnetic 180 degrees rather than a true south ?
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:18
  #6047 (permalink)  
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In this evening’s Kuala Lumpur briefing the Malaysia authorites said the co-pilot did not make MH370′s last radio call “all right good night” before the lost 777-200ER went dark and diverted from its intended flight path from the Malaysia capital to Beijing on 8 March.
So, if he didn't make the radio call before it went 'dark', the implication is surely that he made the call after it did. And if this is the case, after the initial event, surely the press conference tonight is suggesting that suspicion is on the FO??
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:19
  #6048 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by rigbyrigz View Post
P.S. Apologies to BARREL. The 40 degree turn from FR24, no longer discussed much but an obvious fly in the ointment, I can't stomach bringing up right now; esp. when FR24 has some accuracy issues.
thank you for mentioning the "fly in the oitment" and delving into this issue.

I read your last posts and all the answers you got. My question is: was there any official confirmation by the Malaysian authorities about the left-turn allegedly programmed into the FMS and reported in the last ACARS at 1:07? I am asking because I confess I could not keep track much of the news during the last 24 hours and I may have overlooked this detail.

In principle, I completely agree with the posters who answered your questions. Changing a flight plan is a matter of few keystrokes, no matter whether you have a secondary flight plan prepared or you change you original flight plan "on the fly" by adding/deleting one or more waypoints.
The key point is whether the pilot and/or the F/O did this before 1:21. Any official confirmation about this?
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:22
  #6049 (permalink)  
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Now I was wondering: If one inverts so much money into such a RADAR on the mainland, then wouldn't it be logical to take advantage of the location of Cocos (Keeling) Islands to dramatically extend the range
There are two radars (plus Jindalee, the prototype) about 900 miles apart. Each has a Tx and Rx array about 1/2 mile long separated by about 50 miles. JORN also relies on transponders along the coast to provide real time data on the ionosphere. These are typically 500+ miles from the radar arrays.

Jorn is BIG. The Cocos archipelago is only about 5 miles across.

Last edited by pvmw; 19th Mar 2014 at 14:02.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:23
  #6050 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
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My question to the board: the AMSA search area is now but 3% of the total 'southern arc' total search area. I gather that this is due to the the focus on the route scenarios provided by the NTSB. Anyone know how these were derived? Simple 180 header south from the Bay of Bengal x fuel? Computer modelling of various sets of satellite ping arc data? Anyone know?
Very interesting question. Yesterday this was discussed to some length in this thread. Probably computer modelling is the way to go. The shrinking that happened to the search area from yesterday to today is an indication that they are doing constant simulation runs. By doing more runs and feeding in more data and assumptions they can home in a little bit more on the target.

The data would be:
- set of ping arcs
- wind vectors on assumed flight path
- atmospheric parameters(temp,pressure,humidity) and resulting engine performance

Assumptions would be:
- Fuel on board
- TAS which puts restraints on fuel flow
- Altitude which puts restraints on TAS and fuel flow
- assumptions on HDG setting or flightplan in FMC
- assumptions on throttle setting

The model can become quite complex.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:23
  #6051 (permalink)  
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We were taught to go to standby, set the new squawk, and return to ON,

The logic was to avoid the possibility of going through an emergency squawk (unlikely) or flicking through other squawks.

Remember an Air Trafficker telling us, quite a long time ago, never go to SBY, they will lose the return and it may not come back immediately, which 'blinds' them, also, an inadvertent emergency squawk can be easily sorted by R/T within seconds.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:24
  #6052 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
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A slight climb and the speed will drop off and the aircraft will eventually stall, (it may even reach FL450!)
No the B777 will not reach FL450 through a "slight climb" manoeuvre, climbing to that altitude requires special actions and forced manoeuvres, as explained in details by a fellow 777 pilot a few pages back.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:24
  #6053 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South East England
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The pilot deleting records from his flight simulator will be a very temporary inconvenience.

Look up forensic data recovery.
Even physically smashing the hard drive leaves data that can be recovered.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:27
  #6054 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Yorkshire
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STOP Transponders being switched off. Now!!

12 Days in and still no commitment from any Transport Authority, Airline or Aircraft producer that Transponders be permanently locked in some way???

Will we learn nothing from this and 9/11 ???
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:31
  #6055 (permalink)  
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No the B777 will not reach FL450 through a "slight climb" manoeuvre, climbing to that altitude requires special actions and forced manoeuvres, as explained in details by a fellow 777 pilot a few pages back.

Sorry, I put an exclamation mark in but should have added a smiley, that statement in brackets was definitely tongue in cheek!
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:35
  #6056 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by OleOle View Post
A third conceivable reason could be that negative and positive g was introduced deliberately, to detain someone who would wanted to enter the FD.
And another reason for primary radar height finding to be inaccurate is that the size of the aircraft gave a strong radar target that fooled the height finding algorithms.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:36
  #6057 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Luton
Posts: 31
It is nothing unusual to collect the funds for the Hull Insurance from the relevant insurers. Most policies say something like "when an aircraft has disappeared and not been seen for a period of at least 48 hours" insurers will pay the agreed hull value. In doing so they will take any rights of salvage over the aircraft, thus if it were to be found in one peice it would be insurers property to dispose of how they saw fit.

Remembering the aircraft is not owned by MAS, therefore any funds will be owed to the lessor of this aircraft.

The bigger issue will be the SAR costs, as has already been said, the AF SAR costs were $40m, in this loss searching in so many places the costs could exceeed $40m, most airline insurance policies will cover SAR but with a limit of about $10m leaving the airline to foot bill.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:37
  #6058 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Admissions that the waypoint sent was only the original course.
Refusal to answer whether the plane actually flew to the waypoints zigzaging as previosusly reported. (Saying we have moved past that.)
Before I had some faith in them. I now sense a coverup.
Of course the no new way point activated in message messes up several pages of this topic, and the no waypoints will be a few more if true.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:40
  #6059 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Pont. Nav:

I was taught to do the same thing when I flew something small, pointy and fast.

However, on "modern" airliner-type transponders there is no need because one changes the squawk by pressing the Clear button, then simply pressing the four buttons corresponding to the given squawk.

I guess one could accidentally press 77 or 76 or 75, but that would be silly, given that one is sitting in a comfortable seat in shirtsleeves, not pulling "g" and fumbling with a gloved finger in a dark part of the cockpit.

edited to add: I agree with calypso.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 12:46
  #6060 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2000
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What would you do as pilot of a 777 (or comparable aircraft) if faced with a 'significant' electrical fire in the exact position south of Vietnam where MH370 deviated from course?
Turn towards the nearest suitable runway, run the appropriate checklist. Just as he would have practiced many times in the simulator during his career. The company simulator, not his own.

I would keep well away from undocumented home made procedures. These are complex machines and you can run into pretty severe unintended consequences if in the spirit of the moment you go off piste. Avionics fire, fumes, smoke is a well covered scenario with well defined containment actions planned by boeing engineers and test pilots with far more in depth knowledge and time than I would have if suddenly confronted with the problem.

Last edited by calypso; 19th Mar 2014 at 12:56.
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