Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:39
  #4541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Age: 60
Posts: 215
If ACARS is anything like software I've worked on, a menu-driven closedown may be a 'graceful' termination, ie there's some housekeeping done and a minimal 'That's it for now. Goodbye'. An abrupt closedown, say by pulling a CB, may not be graceful, it seems to me.
overthewing is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:41
  #4542 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alaska
Posts: 149
Were the pilots friends at all , had they flown together recently , it doesn't sound like a 2 crew spur of the moment Idea.
Hijack is possible , the unaccounted for ULD could have contained the perpetrators and weapons. It is possible to get from cargo to EE bay to cabin.
Could disable systems including cockpit door and walk right in.
Leaves 2 possibilities
1. They got away with the aircraft and it's hidden or on the sea floor.

2. The plot was discovered and the aircraft shot down and now covered up for some unknown reason.
Rabbitwear is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:44
  #4543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Perth
Age: 56
Posts: 65
There has been no official confirmation whether Australia's Jindalee (JORN) radar system was on or off on the morning of 8/3.

Or to what extent it had to be focused in that direction if it was on.

See

Australia Silent On Whether OTH Radar Tracked MH370

for an official no comment statement.

However, it is widely known that the system is not always operated.
ana1936 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:46
  #4544 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 268
As far as I know, all B777 satcom links can be disabled by a few simple selections within the CDU interface on the flightdeck. No need to 'pull CB's' down in the EE bay at all. If data pings were being received after the LKP, either the satcom links were not disabled, or there is an independant satcom data logging system that I was not made aware of in my 15 years of flying the B777.
777fly is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:47
  #4545 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: On the fast lane
Posts: 18
Not sure if this has been mentioned before - all Comms (HF & VHF) C/B's are located in the flight deck Overhead Panels. Only SatCom C/B's are in the E & E Bay.
Kooljack is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:50
  #4546 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Right Here
Posts: 30
Thanks to ana for providing some true tech reality to the thread !
Wantion is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:53
  #4547 (permalink)  

Freight God
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: LS-R54A
Posts: 308
Rabbitwear

you cannot go through LD3 stuffed with bags and cargo unless you are a gas. Possibly there is a maintenance access, but restricted to ground use for lack of space.
Hunter58 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:54
  #4548 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Perth
Age: 56
Posts: 65
Sheep Guts

The ACARS SATCOM system (even when ATCARS is off but the engines operating) just broadcasts (initial parts of ) ping messages to whoever is listening.

If an INMARSAT is above the horizon it will hear that message.

It does not matter if several hear the message.
ana1936 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:55
  #4549 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK, South East
Posts: 56
"I can think of no reason you would EVER want to turn off the transponder once in flight, and I think that we will find this option is rapidly removed from the flight deck.. "

The time mine started squawking 7600, despite what it was set for, in the YYZ control zone comes to mind
14k hours and never had a transponder squawk something that I hadn't set (deliberate or as a mistake). Besides you've got two... Switch it over to the other one. HIGHLY unlikely that both would be buggering around... The point stands..
Jumpjim is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:58
  #4550 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where it is comfortable...
Age: 55
Posts: 649
Originally Posted by Speed of Sound
Electrical equipment is usually switched off by removing the power to the unit.
Electrical, yes. Electronic, no. Any device which has a data processing capability (and let's not dwell on the depth of that capability) is usually not powered down by a simple switch breaking the power circuit. Usually the off switch does nothing more than sends a signal to the processor, which then proceeds with the shut-down routine. I need not explain more to anyone who is watching this on a computer.

I assume that the ACARS transmitting unit has a built in processor (probably multiple processors), which would go through a shut-down routine (and as part of it, possibly 'say good-bye' to the receiving end). A power disconnect would have a different signature (or rather lack of it) which is why I presume authorities can say with confidence that it was intentionally shut down, not failed.
andrasz is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:59
  #4551 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 50
Posts: 1,601
Quote:Jumpjim
"I can think of no reason you would EVER want to turn off the transponder once in flight, and I think that we will find this option is rapidly removed from the flight deck.. "

The time mine started squawking 7600, despite what it was set for, in the YYZ control zone comes to mind
14k hours and never had a transponder squawk something that I hadn't set (deliberate or as a mistake). Besides you've got two... Switch it over to the other one. HIGHLY unlikely that both would be buggering around... The point stands..
There has to be some form of overheat protection.
FE Hoppy is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:59
  #4552 (permalink)  

Freight God
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: LS-R54A
Posts: 308
NWA SLF

the flight plan would become active at take-off and this message and the relevant times when to expect the aircraft at their area of responsibility is sent on to each ATC unit downline.

However, military centers would not care to look closely at something flying on an airway or outside of their boundaries. And unless they at least receive the data from the civilians they would not know which aircraft is not supposed to be there. And the coordination between the military and the civils does not work all too well in may countries.
Hunter58 is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:04
  #4553 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Guernsey
Age: 61
Posts: 2
Contrail?

Would it be possible to calculate from met info and the given FL whether the aircraft would have left a contrail. As I understand it, satellites can look through cloud base to view the surface by using certain filters or wavelength technology. Is it even possible to look for a contrail on the suggested or predicted route for that time.
Ninja as is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:04
  #4554 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK, South East
Posts: 56
FE Hoppy: I agree but there is nothing in the transponder that allows us to see if it's overheated. The first we would know on the flight deck is when it fails.

I'm talking about flight crew having the option to manually select the transponder off. By all means retain the option to select another transponder and maybe set the transponder to squawk when the park brake comes off for ground surveillance, but in flight? Maybe going forward we would be better off working around the concerns mooted but lose the ability to disable it so easily.
Jumpjim is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:07
  #4555 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: near EDTY
Age: 54
Posts: 4
...OTH/JORN....at night with less range....

An OTH radar like JORN works properly when MUF (maximum usable frequency) is high, this almost during daylight, because you have good propagtion up 30 to 35 MHz during high solar flux in F2 layer, as in the last weeks. During nighttime the MUF goes down rapidly to 15 MHz atm, so have less range and resolution. The range of JORN is between 1000km and 3000km, this is limited to MUF and day- and nighttime. The same facts are for the Chinese OTH.....
So JORN may be on, but due to less range, caused by low MUF in nighttime, it couldn't catch MH370 at all. A good short overview of JORN is here: https://www.airforce.gov.au/docs/JORN_FAQS.pdf

my 2 cent about OTH, Michael
EDTY is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:10
  #4556 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dharan
Age: 61
Posts: 305
Acars

Forgive me if this is a repeat, but how do we KNOW that the acars was switched off and not just catastrophically compromised? Ditto IFF.

fe hoppy

Can you give me the post no.?

Last edited by buttrick; 16th Mar 2014 at 14:32.
buttrick is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:14
  #4557 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 50
Posts: 1,601
buttrick read back 3 pages.
FE Hoppy is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:17
  #4558 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brazil
Age: 50
Posts: 41
disgusted

Too many questions still answered. Too much information of dubious authenticity and from questionable sources being used for fancy claims and any kind of speculation. No surprise when this comes from the MSM, but really hard to accept when you read the same in a self-proclaimed professional pilot forum.

Example 1. The alleged radio contact with MAS370 made by the anonymous captain of a Japan-bound airliner makes me smell rats. Why should a real pilot with a verifiable record refuse to give his own name and his flight number in such a situation? What's the problem with it? Wouldn't this help the investigation? His alleged statement is also highly suspicious. He heard nothing, all he says is that "there were a lot of interference… static… but I heard mumbling". In short, he is unable to refer the content of the transmission, he is unable to say whether he spoke with the captain or the F/O, the alleged time of the radio transmission is after the time the datalink had been turned off and the transponder had been turned off. Sorry, but to me this smells like a typical piece of disinformation. Someone planted this interview just to "prove" that the captain and the F/O were still at the controls of the aircraft at that time. I will believe this captain as soon as he will come out with a real name and the exact position of his aircraft, which should not be so difficult to verify with a map and radar data.

Example 2. Someone posted here a video where an alleged "friend" of the captain suggests "you can elaborate scenarios with a flight simulator". Question: did someone bother to verify the authenticity of this report? Who is this guy? How do I know he was actually a friend of the captain? He claims he tried to contact the captain's family, but.. oops.. was unable to talk with any member of it. How convenient.
Not to talk about the thousands of allegations the captain was "obsessed for politics" or had more or less terrorist tendencies just because he owned a simulator at home. Ludicrous, not to say outrageous.

As anybody else, I ignore the truth. Yet it appears to me that two professional pilots with an excellent flight record and an unquestionable reputation are being massacred by the media without any shred of evidence and I can't help concluding that this is part of a deliberate disinformation campaign.
Note to the mods. Feel free to delete this post, I only want to make clear that based on the current verifiable information I do not buy the hijack scenario perpetrated by the cockpit. The theory makes no sense. And I add that I would expect PPRuNe would defend their reputations as far as any real evidence to the contrary exists.
barrel_owl is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:19
  #4559 (permalink)  
Props are for boats!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: An Asian Hub
Age: 51
Posts: 989
ANA that 8 degree pink ring is the horizon line for the POR. That is to say its on the extreme receptive edge of its coverage. Yet it intersects with the strong IOR 40 degree red band which has received all the pings since 01:07am to 08:11am.
So I would say the fact the POR didn't pick up the 08:11am Ping is pure guess and not certain. So far not enough info has been given to us to eliminate that arc in the South China Sea.
Sheep Guts is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2014, 14:19
  #4560 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UTC +8
Posts: 2,611
..."Why bother going to FL450 and then back to FL295 and making a lot of unexplained turns?"
If true, it could be a sign of a struggle in the cockpit. Because at the time, the airframe was too heavy to maintain FL450 and likely stalled, then dropped and was recovered at the lower altitude.

The experienced suicidal pilot/hijacker(s), behind locked armored door, after setting autopilot course to mid Indian ocean, could then have turned off the packs, (airframe pressurization) and leisurely asphyxiated along with the rest of the occupants during the 6 hours' phantom cruise. This gentle death would have spared them the adrenaline filled black-hole drama of violent impact on a moonless night after fuel exhaustion.
GlueBall is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.