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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:33
  #3981 (permalink)  
 
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I can't imagine why someone would follow the southern possibility, it leads no-where within fuel range. Surely it must have gone North?



Unless the authorities have further info, I can't see this a/craft being found any time soon.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:36
  #3982 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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Well, with over 22000 hours, and the the last 24 years spent flying long haul, all right, roger that, seems a "normal' response to me, compared to some things I have heard. I will be the first to admit, when I'm in home airspace I will say different things as compared to say when I'm in Rusian airspace. I think we are looking at too deeply.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:36
  #3983 (permalink)  
 
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If something that pops up on PPRuNe is enough to give an 'amateur' troublemaker the means to take over a plane, then it seems to me it's a vulnerable area that should be identified and dealt with. Airing it is only responsible - especially if the issue has been ignored by those in authority.

That point is well made and well taken. It just the manner in which these vulnerabilities are being aired that takes me aback. Very little of it is in a disinterested, cool, and rational , effort to move the ball down-field. Rather a lot of it is sensationalist, presumptive, and snippets that make the listener/reader feel as if he has gleaned a secret from the inner sanctum of knowledge.

In other words, I am all for the rational review and emendation of our procedures. It is the tawdry approach that I do not take a liking to...

As for another poster stating that you just pay money to learn? I would recommend a better reading of this forum and many of its threads. Not that it is post doctoral microbiology or physics, but there is a bit more to maneuvering an airliner than just a few sessions on the home computer...
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:36
  #3984 (permalink)  
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@Foray Access

The "pings" under discussion were empty network keepalive messages sent as a matter of routine functioning of the SATCOM transceiver itself. Imagine this conversation:

"Hello? Anyone there? If, hypothetically, I wished to send some data, could you pass it along for me? Oh, I'm not paid up on this account? So sorry to trouble you. I'll ask again later. Perhaps then I can speak to someone whose bills I've paid."


Pings do not contain signon data, so the carrier can not possibly determine whether the account is current. Pings are used by professionals to determine if a server is connected. However, it is really sloppy software to generate superfluous pings. If there is not data to transmit, then there is no reason to waste battery power and bandwith to see which server could take your call if you had a payload to send, like a sign on request. Pings can be generated by cell phone users who do not disable their mobile network, either through settings or through airplane mode. I highly doubt that avionic software is written to ping ad nauseum. It certainly would help if authorities could specify exactly which component is pinking. But due to the absence of information, it's safe to assume they don't know. It took them days to associate the pinging and radar track with MH370. So, can be deducted that engineers have found a way to extrapolate a connection between the pinging and the aircraft.
By the way, the 45,000ft data and then the 0 altitude data seem to support a disintegration of flight MH370. MH370 with its load could not climb to 45000, but a MH370 with missing parts may, in part of the breakdown series.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:38
  #3985 (permalink)  
 
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For those suggesting the plane might have "shadowed" another to avoid radar...

Regardless of who did it, this appears very carefully planned. Would the culprit or culprits count on that other plane being where it was supposed to be? To me, too big a chance that the other flight might be delayed - then the whole plan falls apart.

The only way I could possibly see it working would be if the pilot of the shadowed aircraft was in on the plot, and that seems exceeding unlikely.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:43
  #3986 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, you beat me to it. Non-standard terminology seems to be the rule rather than the exception between pilots and controllers with whom they work on a regular basis. You're correct - out of country we tend to go bay the book.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:44
  #3987 (permalink)  
 
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I still don't quite understand how they arrive at the two arcs. Intelsat IOR at 64E I understand, but what tells them it's that narrow band, and not a band through (for example) Pakistan and the Maldives, which are also not overlapped by another sat? Can someone take the trouble to explain in layperson terms?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:48
  #3988 (permalink)  
lhp
 
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'shadowing'

....It was suggested that MH370 was shadowed until its demise at 1:30, and the shadow then turned west on a flight path that shadows the ATC boundaries exactly. The suggestion was that the pings are generated by the shadow, not MH370.
This has been laid to rest though by yesterday's announcement that the pings have been tied to MH370 definitely. Unfortunately they didn't explain how, which would then have to pass peer review by PPRuNe.
I am glad that this forum is not confined to jet jockeys, most of which are not rated on 777's anyway.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:48
  #3989 (permalink)  
 
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so assuming the disappearance was deliberate, how do you make your 777 totally invisible to everyone, civil and military not to mention engineering/Rolls Royce?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:50
  #3990 (permalink)  
 
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I still don't quite understand how they arrive at the two arcs. Intelsat IOR at 64E I understand, but what tells them it's that narrow band, and not a band through (for example) Pakistan and the Maldives, which are also not overlapped by another sat? Can someone take the trouble to explain in layperson terms?
There's quite a bit of discussion and accompanying diagrams beginning with TelcoAg's post #3779 a few pages back... explains it very nicely!
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:51
  #3991 (permalink)  
 
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Some points about the inmarsat lines of position.

- According to spec GSM must infer distance between base station and user equipment via round trip times with an acuracy of better than 550 metres. I see no reason why Inmarsat should perform worse.

- In the first 2 hours of the flight MH370 was in range of two satellites (POR/IOR). During that time two intersecting lines of position should be available. From todays PMs Statement:
Today, based on raw satellite data that was obtained from the satellite data service provider, we can confirm that the aircraft shown in the primary radar data was flight MH370. After much forensic work and deliberation, the FAA, NTSB, AAIB and the Malaysian authorities, working separately on the same data, concur.
I.e. primary radar track and the positions from inmarsat correlate. That is what gives them confidence in the data.

- What was shown to the public was only the last known line of position. More lines from during the flight must be available.

- If sombody wanted to land that plane somewhere (I don't believe it) he might wanted to do that with first light. As we are close to Equinox the night/day border is almost parallel to the meridians. Longitude of the day/night border at 8:11 Malay time was somewhere close to the Andamans. Further west it was still dark.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:52
  #3992 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ollopa View Post
I still don't quite understand how they arrive at the two arcs. Intelsat IOR at 64E I understand, but what tells them it's that narrow band, and not a band through (for example) Pakistan and the Maldives, which are also not overlapped by another sat? Can someone take the trouble to explain in layperson terms?
The reality is that likely the band is not so narrow. Calculating distance from >30000km requires very accurate timing. If they are off by a millisecond, they they could be off by hundreds of kilometres. So the reality is the potential arc of last known locations could be much wider, but these are what they determined to be most likely given the last known position of the aircraft.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:52
  #3993 (permalink)  
 
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This will probably be deleted, but I thought straight away it was an odd thing to say The expression "all right" is so English, not the sort of thing said by a Malaysian. If he had said OK, I might not have noticed.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 17:55
  #3994 (permalink)  
 
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Rogue pilot carries on until leaving Malaysian Air traffic Control and then goes totally quiet. That's "easy" - now the difficult bit - WHY ?
...tired of life and a need to make a statement by going down with a big bang.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 18:06
  #3995 (permalink)  
 
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This will probably be deleted, but I thought straight away it was an odd thing to say The expression "all right" is so English, not the sort of thing said by a Malaysian. If he had said OK, I might not have noticed.
Hi Jeanlyon

I am unsure if you ever lived or visited Malaysia, which was a colony of the British, and where English is widely spoken together with their language, Bahasa Malaysia. The average Malaysian speaks decent English IMO so much so applicants seeking to migrate to eg Australia, do not have to go through the IELTS testing, given as an example.

Undubbed content from the US and elsewhere forms a large portion of openly available TV channels in Malaysia.

It would not surprise me if he had indeed said that. I would think that the captain was educated in an English medium school and took all his professional courses in English.

Disclaimer: Born in Kuala Lumpur, living in Switzerland for years.

http://www.universityworldnews.com/a...10408183436105

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tren...n-Asia-ranking

Last edited by Kentut; 15th Mar 2014 at 18:23. Reason: Added a link or two - cheers!
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 18:07
  #3996 (permalink)  
 
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If this episode was/is due to loony pilot(s), does this mean that the sensible flight ops departments of sensible airlines will regain control of flight crew recruitment??

First move would be to lock out the dreaded H R departments with their obviously ineffective psychometric tests, and to introduce proper psychobabble screening for current and future pilots and wannabes.

This could provide much needed employment amongst the shrinks shortly to be made redundant by the UK health service and introduce a complete new raft of certificates for EASA to charge for issue!

Bearing in mind that the large majority of air accidents are HF related, it might also reduce the nastys which occur due to the faulty
programming of the space between the ears of the 21st century
bonobos occupying the front seats, of whom I was one til recently?!
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 18:08
  #3997 (permalink)  
 
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From elsewhere, last possible location map with Jindalee overlay:


So the Aussies 'should' be able to rule out the lower segment, depending on possible error margin?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22527773-post4170.html
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 18:10
  #3998 (permalink)  
 
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What about superimposing a circle, radius 3000 miles, centred on the South China sea position and seeing where it intersects the satellite arc?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 18:13
  #3999 (permalink)  
 
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Not buying this suicide angle, why wait 2hrs and why not nose dive it from FL370?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 18:13
  #4000 (permalink)  
 
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B777-200 avionics compartment photos on the web

United Hanger at SFO. - Wings900 Discussion Forums

(found these online, gives an impression)
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