Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

[hillberg]

No Smokin hole or water debris ,Nothing, just like the comms.

No answer today, No answers at all. All points to getting jacked .

What does the insurance carriers say? Cargo or pax for ransom?

Someone dreaming to become the next Airheart?

[91XRAY]

< harragote >

Isn't there a relatively simple process of deduction re: the possible primary radar sighting of an aircraft over the Malacca Strait, I.e. if it wasn't MH370, then what aircraft was it? That issue is a sub-story in itself.

If it was another aircraft with a low radar sig, did it play a part in the demise of MH370, either intentionally or unintentionally? Did one plane limp off west and the other limp off east? Was it fast moving from east to west and collided with MH370?

Are the Malaysians behaving like they're under duress from another nation (China or the US) with regards to what they're comfortable saying publicly about what actually happened?

It's just another theory, but speculation will continue 'til some hard facts emerge.

I believe there are roughly three or four posts in this wonderful thread that at least allude to this question.

And it is one well worth asking in expanded form ie any body have LOA of any kind in the area ? Manned or unmanned ??


For many of the 'aftermath' speculations this could fit.

In otherwords, the key critical first event was a mid collision of some kind.

And yes, one can wonder about that other track.

One Malaysian official when queried as to why they let it go over came back with something alone the lines of it '- appeared friendly'.


Many appear unsatisfied with this 'minor' aspect of the tale.

It does on the first pass, seem more than strange that unidentified airspace intrusion of this type is not a concern.


However, perhaps...... this kind of observation is a regular thing ??

And if you think about it, perhaps a regular ( and arranged ??? ) drone crossing point or similar ?


Then, we can look at the media.

To the best of my knowledge, this possibility or speculation has not once been raised, while they are quite willing, in some cases, to go off the deep end with many other.


Well, who knows, but sometimes what is not said is @ least as useful as what is.

[Sheep Guts]

CNN Report
CNN Exclusive: Analysis shows Flight 370 crashed in Indian Ocean - CNN.com

"Among the things being considered is whether lithium batteries in the cargo hold, which have been blamed in previous crashes, played a role in the disappearance, according to U.S. officials briefed on the latest developments in the investigation. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release details to the media.
If the batteries being carried on the plane caused a fire, it still doesn't fully explain other anomalies with Flight 370, the officials say."

I would love to know where the Cargo manifest was disseminated from? And who their source is?
The cargo on board if any is still a missing piece of information here.
Could an uncontrolled lithium ion battery fire in the forward cargo cut all cabling from the avionics to the rest of the aircraft ie. antenna cables etc? Is the proximity forward cargo to the avionics bay and cabling close enough to warrant concern?
New ICAO / IATA lithium ion battery carrying rules were implemented last year world wide.

[techgeek]

time to fuel exhaustion

Endurance must be less than 7 hours if acft maneuvered as much as now being reported. Especially if most of the flight was at FL230. A much narrower search area should be established based on new data from Malaysian PSR and Inmarsat packets.

Based on known flight to IGARI then assuming acft DM FL230 and went D VAMPI D GIVAL D IGREX anyone want to hazard a guess at the range after IGREX?

[fatlittlepig]

most logical explanation so far

the totality of what we know at this point IMHO, points to deliberate "hijacking" of the plane by either the captain or copilot. an external hijacker is not going to be savvy or technically proficient to fly through these navigational waypoints, in addition the pilot apparently timed the flight diversion to after the plane left the first country's air traffic control etc.

I suspect this will turn out to be suicide by pilot, I believe for whatever reason he was trying to hide his plot in this odd way. if they haven't already investigated thoroughly the pilots personal life's, financial situation, evidence of depression etc that would be a serious oversight.

[jimmydfw]

Flight Sim observation

I find it odd that the First Officer is outed on Australian TV as having broken security protocol by inviting a couple of highschool girls on the flight deck and trying to hook-up with them while they were on holiday in Thailand. I can venture that was not an isolated event as well. The forum's attitude here was that its unfortunate the media portrayed him like that and he shouldn't be remembered that way. Also noting the captain on that flight will likely face disciplinary action (rightly so). Even if, and I'll admit it, they don't look like the terrorist types, it demonstrates a willy-nilly attitude towards his duties and responsibilities on the flight-deck as well as security.

Captain Shah on the other hand, has had no reports of wrong doing (so far). He's demonstrated a love for flying with his #1 Carreer #2 RC models #3 Flight Sim hobby. Contrary to the FO, Capt. Shah is immediately suspect because he has an over the top computer gaming setup? You guys need to give it a rest. Its a hobby, something to throw time and money at and a pretty interesting hobby to many people.

I'm sure there are plenty of people here (myself included) whom some would think they have gone overboard on a hobby and have way too many putters or drivers. Who on here has spent more than $2,500 on a bicycle? Fishing equipment? Home theater system? Classic cars? Gun collection? Ham radio setup?

Also, I'd venture to guess that a capt. wih 18,000+ hours probably wouldn't need to 'practice' cutting the circuit beakers and flipping a u-turn in the sim. More likely, he spends most of his sim time flying WW2 fighters in dogfights or gliders over the Alps.

One more thing, from looking through capt. Shah's youtube history, it appears he was most likely an atheist and certainly not any kind of religious nutjob terrorist candidate.

[CYTN]

SKY REPORTING - Malaysian official reporting plane hijacked

[ana1936]

Last satellte traces of plane are from 1000 miles west of Perth

Missing Malaysian Jet Said Tracked to Ocean Off Australia - Bloomberg

(post edited to correct error in units: thsnks for feedback)

[mickjoebill]

We are yet to question the absolute accuracy or detail of these pings
and who has decoded them

The reliability of ACARS was questioned days ago by referencing the discrepancies on 9/11 data.

[Tfor2]

Past is Gone. Now?

How about the future? What will change? Henceforth, ALL planes need to have an I.D. broadcasting at ALL TIMES whilst in the air, and NOT under the control of the cockpit. This will not only discourage future events of this kind, but will serve PAX with the comforting knowledge that never again will they be at the mercy of terrorists, mentally challenged pilots, or disorganized authority. The technology has existed for a long long time, and that it has never been used is unforgivable.

[xgjunkie]

Valujet 592 fits PERFECTLY!
Doesn't fit AT ALL.
The ValuJet flight was over in minutes after the fire was detected.

maybe the malaysian crew were taken by suprise and didnt get time.
Sure.. they didn't have time to utter a single sentence but instead had hours to wonder through the airspace, trying different directions, altitudes....

Rubbish! the aircraft took off 2:04pm. At 2:10 the pilots became aware they were on fire, at 2:13 the pilots were incapacitated and the aircraft impacted water. It took less than three minutes to destroy that aircraft. From pilots first awareness. That fire was very fast moving and this one could have been equally so.
There are NO officials FROM the search effort saying the aircraft flew longer than last contact other than the media. I suppose you are another rascist that doesnt believe the Malaysians are capable of conducting SAR effectively.

[olasek]

The reliability of ACARS was questioned days ago by referencing the discrepancies on 9/11 data.

This has long time ago been debunked as total rubbish. There was no discrepancy in ACARS data, there were however ACARS msgs sent to those aircraft after they were already destroyed on 9/11.

[JanetFlight]

At 5 UTC Malaysian PM will adress to the world...according latest dev. by the Malaysia Gov and Secret Services they almost reach the conclusion of a Hijacking case:

Missing Malaysia Plane Was Hijacked

[porterhouse]

It took less than three minutes to destroy that aircraft.

Correct! therefore that accident has nothing to do with MH370 were aircraft was airborne for hours, are you incapable of understanding that? Yes, the media so far is the only source of data, if you don't like what media writes don't read this thread. If you don't believe what CNN says about Pentagon's analysis - go directly to Pentagon. Or better travel to Malasia and search for clues yourself because I suspect you won't believe anybody.

[mabuhay_2000]

Heli-phile

I don't agree with your sentiment.

I am not a pilot, but I am a VERY experienced investigator and AVSEC expert.

This is no longer about flying, per se. This is now an investigation to find the aircraft and, I would suggest, people like me are far more qualified in that regard than holders of flying licences!

However, I see no real problem with people who have various relevant skills pooling their knowledge and experience to try and figure it out. In the course of figuring it out, a lot of extreme ideas will be put forward and then be dismissed as and when information is forthcoming. That is the nature of investigations, no?

Whilst I would say that, in the vast majority of cases, the obvious cause is the correct one, there are the odd cases where something left-field turns out to be the cause. That sifting requires solid, corroborated information. None of us has access to that right now.

We can posit ideas based on various assumptions, but you know what they say about assuming? To assume makes an ASS of U and ME, as I was taught decades ago on an intelligence analysis course run by the government that employed me at the time. A course run by the best in the business, I might add!

So, where does all that leave us? Basically, in terms of solid facts, pretty much right where we were when the story went public last Saturday.

If, IF, for example, the Immarsat data proved to be accurate, along with the Malaysian radar data, we could eliminate a whole lot of theories and shut down a large of chunk of the SAR effort.

Until such time as that firms up, they'll have to keep looking pretty much everywhere within the flight range, as fuelled.

I feel sorry for the Malaysians, frankly. They have half the world on their case.

[PieChaser]

How about the future? What will change? Henceforth, ALL planes need to have an I.D. broadcasting at ALL TIMES whilst in the air, and NOT under the control of the cockpit. This will not only discourage future events of this kind, but will serve PAX with the comforting knowledge that never again will they be at the mercy of terrorists, mentally challenged pilots, or disorganized authority. The technology has existed for a long long time, and that it has never been used is unforgivable.

Maybe they already do!!

[radar2425]

Question regarding possible flight path

I'm not a professional pilot but I do spend my days in front of the scopes. Just wanted to ask a quick question--hopefully without getting blown up

Let's assume that the AC really did make the left turn at the time of alleged disappearance and seem to follow a direct-to-fix to VAMPI then GIVAL and eventually IGREX (and who knows where beyond that).
Would those fixes have had to been manually dialed in or would they show up on one of the many glass screens as an available "go direct" option with the push of a button? I am just guessing that since they were so far off the intended (loaded?) flight path that they wouldn't be.
I do not pretend to know what has really happened (partial crew incapacitation, hijackers, etc). But I'm curious about the possibility of at least someone being in control for a while and managing to stay aloft.

[mabuhay_2000]

Heli-phile

Oh, and I forgot to mention the geo-political angle.

There are a number of countries with dogs in this race. As I know from experience, governments are ruthless. They will not care one jot for the feelings of the families of the pax and crew. Not one jot. I have seen people's characters destroyed for the 'national interest'.

Governments will do whatever is best for their own interests. Whatever they say publicly should be treated with healthy scepticism until the aircraft is found, if it ever is found. If one of them wants that aircraft never to be found, it will probably never be found.

That's the reality of how things work, however distasteful it is to the honourable and decent amongst us.

[Airbubba]

Article in a a Canadian newspaper


Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 pilots lauded for strong ties to the community | National Post

On the face of it, none of this would seem to indicate deranged or potentially terrorist pilots.

From the article above:

Fariq was a “good boy, a good Muslim, humble and quiet,” said Ahmad Sarafi Ali Asrah, the head of a mosque near Fariq’s two-story home in a middle-class neighborhood on the outskirts of Kuala Lumpur.

Similarly, first officer Gamil al Batouti was praised after the Egyptair 990 crash:

An observant Muslim, Mr. Batouti prayed five times a day, in accordance with Islamic teachings, his relatives said. He made a pilgrimage last winter to Mecca, accompanied by his wife, Umayma Dahi, whom he had married in 1965 and is the mother of the couple's five children.

Only occasionally did he return to his home village, but he usually did so during Ramadan, when he would distribute cash to the poor in accordance with Islamic tradition.

EgyptAir Pilot, From Privileged Background to a Terrible Prominence - New York Times

However, Gamil al Batouti was facing a possible termination hearing after exposing himself to underage girls at the Hotel Pennsylvania in Manhattan.

See: FBI Exposes EgyptAir Pilot | The Smoking Gun

Oddly enough, the NTSB archive seems to be missing the 70 plus page FBI report on al Batouti that was originally posted and discussed here on PPRuNe.

The argument against suicide was made here in the pre-911 SU 990 mishap since 'Muslims don't commit suicide'. Similarly, on this thread the possibility of terrorism was dismissed in early posts 'because Malaysia is a Muslim country'.

I was initially skeptical but given what we now know, I believe a closer look at the crew would certainly be warranted.

If it was me, I'm sure they would check even if the preacher said I sang in the choir at Beulah Baptist.

"You know, now that I think about it, Airbubba did always seem a little strange..."

[Neogen]

At 5 UTC Malaysian PM will adress to the world...according latest dev. by the Malaysia Gov and Secret Services they almost reach the conclusion of a Hijacking case:

Missing Malaysia Plane Was Hijacked

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. "It is conclusive."

Another twist or all the time they knew this and were negotiating with the hijackers..