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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:04
  #3361 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Las Vegas NV.
Age: 58
Posts: 165
Oh captinjim on #4 if nothing is sent from the air data the mode C will only send out the framing pulses with no data giving an invalid not 0'
LASJayhawk is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:06
  #3362 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto
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Question for T7 Drivers

Since I have no operating knowledge of the bird, is it, or is it not, possible to disengage SATCOM from the flight deck?

Assuming a hostage/hijack scenario, I'm wondering if it was not possible to shut down the SATCOM, if it was overlooked, or perhaps left on deliberately by the crew.

All conjecture I know, but still an interesting line of thought.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:11
  #3363 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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It can be disabled by a check-box in an on-screen menu.
777JRM is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:11
  #3364 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
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The fact that the transponder is instantaneously reporting zero while the a/c is 7 miles high in the sky is a key piece of information. The lack of radio reports while the transponder is still working would indicate an in-cabin event which precluded a radio report. Then over a three minute period the transponder ceases reports all together.
It looks like this geographical area is where transponder updates become sketchy as some historic tracks lose data up to a point just short of reaching the Vietnam coast.
All of this points to a rapidly deteriorating electrical system in the aircraft.
The oil rig observation is interesting. The observer is over 300 nm away but it is a dark, cloudless night. His observation of a burning plane would be down near the horizon. But his comment that, from his vantage point, he could percieve no lateral motion lends credibility to his report as we know the plane had just turned more in his direction, head on along with the indication that the event took place much further away than it appears.
If one of those US destroyers in the area is ASW equipped they should run their towed array sonar along 060 to 075 from LKP. The idea it was still in the air for 4 hrs lacks any published data... same as the "military radar" theory.
I think CaptainJim makes a few very good points here. Indeed the B777 flying for 5hrs lacks data, and they have been agreeing and denying this over the past few days. Looks very suspicious to me, not to say the least that a lot of information is not being released to the public.

I would love to see more published data that they obtained.

However, what about the predicted flight path put together by the US military published earlier that suggests the missing plane was heading towards Andaman Islands?
EngineeringPilot is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:11
  #3365 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,653
I have noticed differing posting of the last 10 or so flight data points. The original postings in the early days of this event display the last 2 updates with a flight level of zero(0). The recent postings and news reports I've seen in the media seems to fill in those two values with the same 35,000ft as the rest of the 10 updates rather than the original reports of zero.
This maybe a key oversight. And why so many "experts" are focusing on other areas. I believe the last two reports of zero for altitude along with a constant reading for air speed may provide insight.
There is no evidence that the aircraft sent erroneous data for altitude (i.e. zero), speed or position, nor at this stage any reason to believe that it might have done.

I thought we had disposed of this nonsense about 3,000 posts ago.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:14
  #3366 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SFO
Posts: 21

One would think the statement that deserves the most attention at the moment is from Inmarsat, when they confirmed receiving signals from the aircraft:

Inmarsat statement on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 - Inmarsat

The lack of any detail, given the magnitude of the event and the lack of other leads, is surprising. It is as if to say "Hey, we've seen the missing aircraft!" then, well, nothing.

The fact that they did say "...and the details have been passed on to Malaysian Airlines" is a responsible thing, given that Malaysian (Or technically it seems, the Malaysian transport minister) is the official mouthpiece. But the fact that after all this, that Malaysian is tight lipped, is incredible.

I think of the family members, who must be longing for closure, hearing "We've seen the aircraft", but then NO acknowledgement from Malaysian. I can't imagine how frustrating this is.

How about some details? When did you hear from the aircraft? What did you hear? Do you have any position, speed or altitude information? Give us some parameters on the error factors? I mean, give the people something to go on.
simon001 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:18
  #3367 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Age: 63
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oil rig email


I read earlier on this forum that the email had been shown to be fake. Is that wrong?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:21
  #3368 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Local Moonset in KL was 00:40am, coinciding with takeoff time. As the aircraft was initially eastbound, it is safe to say the entire flight was conducted in darkness, only stars could have provided some directional info to the initiated.
The altitude of the plane would affect the moonset time for those aboard, no?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:25
  #3369 (permalink)  
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There is no "speed" input to the transponder. ATC gets groundspeed on the target from their own computer.
it the mode S transponder has enhanced surveillance it sends out more data than you might be comfortable with including:
Ground speed
Vertical speed
Bank angle
Desired altitude ( yes it rats out what you've dialed in or have in your flight plan)

Bout the only thing it doesn't spit out is if the pilot had the turkey on white or the ham on rye for lunch.
LASJayhawk is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:27
  #3370 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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The altitude of the plane would affect the moonset time for those aboard, no?

It would make the moonset about 10 minutes later. More than I would have thought.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:28
  #3371 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
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The BBC has learned/understands is well known as shorthand for "seen/read/heard elsewhere" and it is a semantic point but most people will ill assume wrongly they are breaking some news.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:28
  #3372 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 39
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Lithium Batteries Theory

MH370 theory (based on my own opinion about breaking news regarding lithium batteries onboard the jet's cargo area)....

Freescale employees (~20 onboard) were carrying cargo with them that included Lithium batteries for demo purposes (see previous fires caused by such batteries including a UPS 777).

Upon learning of the fire, the jet changed course back towards Malaysia, explaining why the pilots flew towards the northern tip of Malaysia (closest land) instead of back to Kuala Lampur.

The fire resulted in a gradual loss of pressure which caused Hypoxia but did not bring down the aircraft, and simultaneously slowly melted the communication devices (explaining why one was shut down and then another 14 minutes later), but did not affect the engines (explaining why the engines continued to "ping" satellites for hours). The jet kept cruising westward as the pilots were unconscious until it eventually crashed into the Indian Ocean.

You heard it here first.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:29
  #3373 (permalink)  
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The altitude of the plane would affect the moonset time for those aboard, no?
Only by a few minutes. If you run the numbers for the day and location through astronomical software it looks like the Moon was over 20 degrees below the western horizon at the time and place of last confirmed contact.
wiggy is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:29
  #3374 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Math Gurus Needed

Just for the hell of it this old Navy Piloto from half a century ago fired up Microsoft Flight Simulator FSX and started a flight from KL to Beijing, the same one as MH370. Upon arrival at IGARI reset the autopilot to VAMPI thence Gival then to IGREX and let her fly. This route made no sense. Backtracking from VAMPI to GIVAL??? Who does that? It is more like a mathematical Markov Random Walk. So we may need to harness the mathematicians among us; graduate level of course, to solve the future whereabouts of MH370 from the present last datum by a Markov Chain Stochastic Analysis. Time has erased most of my high level math learned in Engineering School. Let the games begin. John Nash, where are you now that we really need you?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:31
  #3375 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I really don't think someone who has a Flight Sim at home for sinister purposes would be broadcasting the fact, along with all the hardware that he's bought to put it together (sounds like he built his own -rather impressive - Gaming PC for this purpose), and more importantly using his own name.

He's obviously a really keen gamer and SIM'er, so people that keep harping on about this point really aren't doing themselves any favours.

Background chatter that can be turned down I think.
Let me ask a question of those who see the sim as completely innocent.

Suppose a plane disappeared under odd circumstances such as this one did. After the disappearance, it was found that the pilot had a very elaborate and expensive sim setup hidden in his basement which nobody knew about.

Then would you find it at least a little suspicious?
jugofpropwash is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:31
  #3376 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Asia
Posts: 7

Does anyone know if the signals that Inmarsat picked up are 'pinging' an identity related to the airframe number or the engine number(s)?
GvonSprout is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:33
  #3377 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Flight Sim

But people did know about it. He put photos on the Internet. Hiding in plain sight perhaps, but it is not true that "nobody knew about it."
sflaperons is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:36
  #3378 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Hey - it wasn't "hidden" - he seemed pretty open about showing it off.
GalacticMedical is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:37
  #3379 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
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re # 3407 Underdriven

While apparent moonset or sunrise are indeed a function of YOUR altitude to within a few minutes, I would suggest that that whole issue is a red herring

As a passenger - tourist with only a few long overseas trips at various times day and night ,etc IMHO- to believe anyone at night in the passenger section and absent that little screen display of route could notice stars- or even be aware of a gentle coordinated turn via an autopilot dial or a partly trained non pilot is almost absurd. Eyes open or closed. Now if a high banked turn was made, there would be a slight change ( depending on a coordination) in g's and if during the day some visual clues. But overwater- at night- unless one was fixated on A STAR OR SIMILAR, one would be clueless as to chan ge in direction or slight chane ( less than several thousand d feet in altitude ).

\And as a passenger - so what!!

So what remains ?

1) deliberate change in normal broadcast of transponder and other radio comm
2) delilberate change in course

3) no obvious landing places yet found or discovered

4) last track timing may be due to pinger schedule

5) and over a deep part of ocean

Above are reasonable (IMO) descriptions of available- somewhat factual/credible information released.

And they seem to poInt to A) no accident B) deliberate actions by ??

Hopefully that dampens all the rest - decompression, cell phones, satcom, flight simulators, loose oxygen bottles, hypoxia, and actions by residents of area 51.
DWS is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:38
  #3380 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ukraine
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Further to the moon set times etc, most passengers are not aware of any of that, far less the flight plan route. A turn is just that, a turn on a route, and they do not question it. Turns happen when you are holding, even on airways at higher than normal holding altitudes.
Some passengers will notice, particularly if there is low turbulence (as in this case). I was a passenger on an Afriqiyah flight out of Dakar, and was woken by an unexpected change of direction and cabin pressure, as was a second passenger. It turned out to be for a medical emergency, but for quite a while I wondered whether we had been kidnapped.
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