Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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Fire in the Main Equipment Center (MEC)?
Given the sparse but interesting data of pings of the ACARS system but no data, - a hypothesis to explore is: could this be this is another SwissAir Flight 11 – a fire in the Main Equipment Center (MEC) underneath the cockpit? If there’s a fire a smoke detector illuminates the ‘EQUIP COOLING OVRD’ message on the cockpit EICAS.
see diagram here: http://www.skybrary.aero/images/B772_MEC_FIRE.jpg
It’s possible after seeing a message the crew began a turnback to Malaysia. But if the fire continued it could knock out communications equipment, which would explain the loss of comms, and blow out the crew oxygen bottle which could cause rapid decompression and crew hypoxia if it went off through the fuselage and/or the fire could have damaged the fly-by-wire flight controls which could explain the continued flight.
While just a hypothesis, unfortunately a 777 had a fire in this exact location – luckily for them on the ground in London Heathrow in Feb 2007. See the UK AAIB report:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...7%20N786UA.pdf
The report said, “…Prior to this accident the aircraft manufacturer was involved in investigating 11 in-service reports of power panel overheat events, three of which involved major damage to the panels. The affected panels were the P200 and P300, and the affected contactors were the RBTB, Auxiliary Power Breaker (APB)and the Primary External Power Contactor (PEPC).
Now imagine if the fire occurred in the air at 35,000 feet.
see diagram here: http://www.skybrary.aero/images/B772_MEC_FIRE.jpg
It’s possible after seeing a message the crew began a turnback to Malaysia. But if the fire continued it could knock out communications equipment, which would explain the loss of comms, and blow out the crew oxygen bottle which could cause rapid decompression and crew hypoxia if it went off through the fuselage and/or the fire could have damaged the fly-by-wire flight controls which could explain the continued flight.
While just a hypothesis, unfortunately a 777 had a fire in this exact location – luckily for them on the ground in London Heathrow in Feb 2007. See the UK AAIB report:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...7%20N786UA.pdf
The report said, “…Prior to this accident the aircraft manufacturer was involved in investigating 11 in-service reports of power panel overheat events, three of which involved major damage to the panels. The affected panels were the P200 and P300, and the affected contactors were the RBTB, Auxiliary Power Breaker (APB)and the Primary External Power Contactor (PEPC).
Now imagine if the fire occurred in the air at 35,000 feet.
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@Opsmarco
Technical faults do happen. The more times you fly, the more likely it is that something will eventually happen somewhere. I think you're alluding to a modified diluted version of the anthropic principle here - in that obviously something must have happened to the plane - in your view, possibly sequential multiple failures, hence the low likelihood is of less relevance. The trouble with this reasoning is that we don't actually know what happened to the aircraft. All we can say is that we have an a priori probability of various events occurring. When you stack unlikely events, the overall sequence becomes even more unlikely.
I agree to some extent with your chain reaction idea. In particular, if the plane is damaged and the environmental conditions change such that the crew are incapacitated then it significantly hampers their recovery efforts. However, largely these crew don't respond to crises in the same way than an unprepared individual might (i.e. not be ready etc.). A large part of their training incorporates being ready to fly broken planes insofar as I would actually say that these professional pilots are experts in flying broken planes more than unbroken ones. Obviously, the jet pilots out there can correct me on this point if I'm mistaken. But my impression is that it takes a whole lot more skill to fly a broken plane than a perfectly functioning one, and that's exactly why these experienced pro's are up in the sky not just anybody.
I agree. As you must agree that sometimes a technical fault with a very low probability of happening happens, and since the probability for that issue to arise, crew wasn't ready and did not respond the way they should (I'm speaking theoretically, as I said, I won't speculate on what happened here), starting a chain reaction...
But remember also something : the Boeing 777 is an amazing aircraft, we all agree on that. But if you look at the numbers, statistically, a problem that has an extremely low probability of happening on the 777, the more aircraft fly, and the longer the model is in service, the higher the probability that same issue arises...
But remember also something : the Boeing 777 is an amazing aircraft, we all agree on that. But if you look at the numbers, statistically, a problem that has an extremely low probability of happening on the 777, the more aircraft fly, and the longer the model is in service, the higher the probability that same issue arises...
I agree to some extent with your chain reaction idea. In particular, if the plane is damaged and the environmental conditions change such that the crew are incapacitated then it significantly hampers their recovery efforts. However, largely these crew don't respond to crises in the same way than an unprepared individual might (i.e. not be ready etc.). A large part of their training incorporates being ready to fly broken planes insofar as I would actually say that these professional pilots are experts in flying broken planes more than unbroken ones. Obviously, the jet pilots out there can correct me on this point if I'm mistaken. But my impression is that it takes a whole lot more skill to fly a broken plane than a perfectly functioning one, and that's exactly why these experienced pro's are up in the sky not just anybody.
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cockpitvisit
Whatever passport you used, the airline would still need to see a valid passport, either belonging to the final destination country or with a valid visa for said country.
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@flash8
The aircraft appears to have been fitted with an Inmarsat Aero L package which works through an omni-directional antenna in the global beams of the I-3 series of satellites.
Aero L is used for low speed (600 - 1200 bps) real-time, packet data comms used mainly for ATC (CPDLC) and ACARS services.
In short, no SatPhone services.
But I'm still interested whether this 777 is equipped with Satphones...
Aero L is used for low speed (600 - 1200 bps) real-time, packet data comms used mainly for ATC (CPDLC) and ACARS services.
In short, no SatPhone services.
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AFAIK: the only things I can think of witha push button type of mode select is the Collins PL4/21 with RTU's for tuning the radio or the Honeywell equivalent ( primus 800?) while quite nice in your King Air or Gulfstream, not quite the thing Boeing is in to.
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I have a question: Can a planeload of passengers be disabled by action from the cockpit? Meaning, if the a/c becomes depressurized, overhead functioning oxygen masks would automatically drop down. Could they be prevented from doing so; could the oxygen pressure be turned off from the cockpit? (Assuming some kind of mischief up ahead desiring the silencing of passengers and their cellphones.)
But the Pax will most likely run out of oxygen before the pilots do.
(I cannot give you exact numbers because of the following variables:
1. How many passengers are loaded on the aircraft and how many puts on and activates their masks.
2. Oxygen duration for the pilots is also dependant on the amount of crew (2/3/4) and the setting of their mask. 100% or not. EMER or not.)
Last edited by Pitot Probe; 14th Mar 2014 at 03:39. Reason: My spelling sucks!
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My background is healthcare with no knowledge of aviation except that it takes me to nice vacation locales.
While a shortage of O2 would be a critical event, might I also suggest an increase of CO2 as an equally important factor. Thank you.
While a shortage of O2 would be a critical event, might I also suggest an increase of CO2 as an equally important factor. Thank you.
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Pretty interesting the US Navy is sending a P-8A Poseidon to the Indian Ocean. That plane is bristling with antennaes and advanced electronics for ELEINT and SIGINT and could be a vital tool in the search for electronic signatures. Clearly the search is now electronic, not visual....
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WSJ now reporting that the pings included "location, speed, and altitude.
Possibly this is a mis-reporting of a claim that location, speed and altitude could be derived from the pings by various analytical techniques.
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estranged
Calling Malaysians "muppets" is ridiculous. Particularly when you have no knowledge at all of what comms gave taken place between them and the US, or any other country for that matter.
And, thus far, every leak from a so-called "reliable" source has turned out to be hogwash.
There would also be the matter of exactly when this US info, if it exists (which has still not been OFFICIALLY confirmed by the Malaysians or the US), was made available.
I simply don't buy into this theory that the Malaysians are a bunch of bumbling fools. My interactions with them, in 20+ years of living and working in SE Asia have not shown them to be bumbling fools.
If you simply don't have the right info you will not find the aircraft. It's really that simple, isn't it? They have no logical reason to prevaricate and will be painfully aware that their failure to find the aircraft is making them look bad. They'll want to find it as much as anybody else.
All the leaks from so-called "reliable" sources clearly do not help, and that's down to glory-seeking journalists who want to score the big story.
And, thus far, every leak from a so-called "reliable" source has turned out to be hogwash.
There would also be the matter of exactly when this US info, if it exists (which has still not been OFFICIALLY confirmed by the Malaysians or the US), was made available.
I simply don't buy into this theory that the Malaysians are a bunch of bumbling fools. My interactions with them, in 20+ years of living and working in SE Asia have not shown them to be bumbling fools.
If you simply don't have the right info you will not find the aircraft. It's really that simple, isn't it? They have no logical reason to prevaricate and will be painfully aware that their failure to find the aircraft is making them look bad. They'll want to find it as much as anybody else.
All the leaks from so-called "reliable" sources clearly do not help, and that's down to glory-seeking journalists who want to score the big story.
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Not really. The lack of O2 happens due to the low atmospheric pressure after a depressurization, not due to passengers consuming all the oxygen. CO2 would take many hours to accumulate to dangerous levels, and since the plane is no longer airtight, it would be simply vented out.
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To be honest, it could be a useful feature (e.g. the satellite could tell you were likely to leave coverage in an hour if you were near the edge of the beam and heading outward), but I also suspect it's a misunderstanding. Normally that kind of information would be sent in ADS messages over ACARS, and, if any were received, we'd have known where it went long ago.
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[Quote]:
This seems very odd. First there were pings simply to get the satellites' attention; now it's claimed the pings were sending significant data. Why would the system be designed that way? Where would it be getting the data from? And why didn't anyone seem to know that this capability existed? Wouldn't it be more logical for that data to be sent with the ACARS information rather than in an "are you there?" ping?
Possibly this is a mis-reporting of a claim that location, speed and altitude could be derived from the pings by various analytical techniques.[ End Quote]
If the pings where received by, for example 3 satellites, could they not be triangulated?
This seems very odd. First there were pings simply to get the satellites' attention; now it's claimed the pings were sending significant data. Why would the system be designed that way? Where would it be getting the data from? And why didn't anyone seem to know that this capability existed? Wouldn't it be more logical for that data to be sent with the ACARS information rather than in an "are you there?" ping?
Possibly this is a mis-reporting of a claim that location, speed and altitude could be derived from the pings by various analytical techniques.[ End Quote]
If the pings where received by, for example 3 satellites, could they not be triangulated?
I simply don't buy into this theory that the Malaysians are a bunch of bumbling fools.
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It's conceivable that out of 200+ mobile and smartphones with identifiable GPS receivers some didn't get turned OFF, or weren't switched into FLIGHT mode. Assuredly, those recorded GPS satellite signals could be traced from the airplane's last known position.