Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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There is no reason he should be an Uighur, the 9-11 hijackers came from four countries and shoe-bomber Richard Reid held a British passport. Indeed it has been suggested that Islamist terrorists are now actively seeking Caucasian converts for tasks where being perceived as a Westerner is advantageous.
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@Deaf
I think this is a side track. We can't speculate as to what happened yet. Obviously something highly unusual BUT this lost Italian Passport stuff is pretty stupid to be honest. Western Governments cancel Passports immediately when lost and when issuing a new Passport. That would certainly be the case for an Italian who lost his Passport in Thailand and who needed a new Passport.
Also, an Italian travelling to China would need a Visa from a Chinese Mission, which would, first, verify the Passport and, second, LOOK AT THE APPLICANT!!
Can we shut down this blind alley??
I think this is a side track. We can't speculate as to what happened yet. Obviously something highly unusual BUT this lost Italian Passport stuff is pretty stupid to be honest. Western Governments cancel Passports immediately when lost and when issuing a new Passport. That would certainly be the case for an Italian who lost his Passport in Thailand and who needed a new Passport.
Also, an Italian travelling to China would need a Visa from a Chinese Mission, which would, first, verify the Passport and, second, LOOK AT THE APPLICANT!!
Can we shut down this blind alley??
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Visa
Italian citizens like others European ones do not need a visa to transit at PEK PVG or CAN, if you have a connecting flight within 24? hours. Moreover you can now get a short stay visa at some major airports in PRC upon arrival in some cases but better recheck this before leaving...
philipat "There is possibly, a very simple explanation.... Check in with stolen passport (part of a group, milling around etc etc..... Go through immigration with real one? "
There is this thing called a Boarding Card??
There is this thing called a Boarding Card??
Was there cargo or passengers on board from an earlier flight?
Where did it travel from on its previous sector and how long was it on the ground at KL?
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Flight Plan
Tonights MAS370 - Same/Similar routing - different step climbs though.
PIBOS R208 IKUKO M076F290 R208 IGARI M765 BITOD N0480F330 L637 TSN N0490F350 W1 BMT W12 PCA G221 BUNTA N0480F350 A1 IKELA N0480F350 P901 IDOSI N0480F390 DCT CH DCT BEKOL K0890S1160 A461 YIN K0890S1190 A461
PIBOS R208 IKUKO M076F290 R208 IGARI M765 BITOD N0480F330 L637 TSN N0490F350 W1 BMT W12 PCA G221 BUNTA N0480F350 A1 IKELA N0480F350 P901 IDOSI N0480F390 DCT CH DCT BEKOL K0890S1160 A461 YIN K0890S1190 A461
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Of course, we have to work around subjective event at the moment but having been on that airway last week, there is an inordinate amount of traffic on and around the airway. That's one reason why Sanya ask for offsets. I have had TCAS events with no altitude info and one at night that may have been a drone. The yanks meander with impunity to the south of Hainan so it might be anything. A sig structural or bomb..but it must have been quick since no ELT or EPIRB, even from the recorders??
The Learmount thingy with AF is
the triple is completely different and as a John Deere, will not suck you into a spurious control law disparity situation, it's a belt and braces device compared to the Bus.
The Learmount thingy with AF is
the triple is completely different and as a John Deere, will not suck you into a spurious control law disparity situation, it's a belt and braces device compared to the Bus.
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I'm sure a Chinese visa official would know the difference between an Italian and a Chinese
The question you should really be asking is whether the security systems at the airport of boarding were sufficiently sophisticated that the passport used was scanned and if it was scanned then why didn't an immediate "Passport Cancelled, Stop and Detain Holder" message flash up on the immigration officer's screen? And if a big airport in Malaysia does not have any such automated systems that can scan foreign passports and make its immigration officers immediately aware of forged or cancelled documents then why not?
Having said that I have no idea at all if even a British Passport scanned at London Heathrow or another major UK airport brings up an image on the immigration officer's screen of the original bearer photo submitted to the UK Passport Authority with the passport application in case the actual physical document has subsequently had its photo amended. Even if such electronic data interchange and cross readable passport systems do now exist (post 9/11) between all major Western EU countries and say the USA and Canada I highly doubt that such advanced information interchange yet exists between EU member states and airports in Malaysia..............
Also lastly immigration checks are usually far more sophisticated inbound at an airport than outbound. For instance at London Gatwick the outbound check in the South Terminal now consists only of an automated boarding pass gate and automated photography of the passenger (who knows whether that runs any computer logic of that image against the passport image that is actually on file - I doubt it as it also works for overseas passport holders from all over the world). Although the outbound airline's staff do carry out perfunctory checks of the ticket buyer name against the passport at check in and/or the boarding gate I very much doubt that they have had any serious training in comparing real passenger faces against murky and very small passport photos. To be honest I sometimes also wonder how much training even inbound UKBA immigration officers have had in such matters and/or how much good it has done.
Last edited by Capvermell; 8th Mar 2014 at 13:04.
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There is possibly, a very simple explanation.... Check in with stolen passport (part of a group, milling around etc etc..... Go through immigration with real one?
There is a thing called a boarding card
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After what happened in a Beijing Railway Station last week, I'm sure there is a lot of interest in option 2.
Try Kunming Station, Yunnan Province. Thousands of miles away from Beijing.
Try Kunming Station, Yunnan Province. Thousands of miles away from Beijing.
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"Is the passenger list that has been published a list of passengers who booked a flight or is it a manifest of passengers who boarded the flight?"
At KUL every departing passenger, quite rightly, must produce a Passport AND BOARDING CARD before boarding a flight. Also, at Check-In, a Visa for the destination country is required. IF an Italian travelling to PEK without a Visa is checked-in, then there MUST have been evidence in an eticket or otherwise, that a connection to be made within 24 hours was made. So that should not be too difficult to trace??
At KUL every departing passenger, quite rightly, must produce a Passport AND BOARDING CARD before boarding a flight. Also, at Check-In, a Visa for the destination country is required. IF an Italian travelling to PEK without a Visa is checked-in, then there MUST have been evidence in an eticket or otherwise, that a connection to be made within 24 hours was made. So that should not be too difficult to trace??
Originally Posted by Tu.144
... the photograph on the passport used needs not be the original one...
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The reports which suggest multiple stolen passports were used to board this flight are rather concerning. I’m not going to speculate as that helps nobody but I really hope the stolen Austrian and Italian passports on board are pure coincidence.
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That is off Worldwidew
Sorry WWW but I take exception to publishing a manifest copy in a public forum when maybe all the relatives of those apparently lost may not have been advised.
It is a very pertinent point you make but I get flashbacks to PA103 when I managed to pick a hole in the TIAS system and could pull the passenger list.
Such things are best kept to ourselves.
It is a very pertinent point you make but I get flashbacks to PA103 when I managed to pick a hole in the TIAS system and could pull the passenger list.
Such things are best kept to ourselves.
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i do not believe that those stolen IDs are accident relevant at all but having 2 stolen Passports used for checkin on 1 aircraft does not reassure me on security on Malaysian airports.
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Regarding the terrorist theory, whether or not the passport was false/stolen, it is not obvious how such a person could have created an explosion large enough to have knocked out all power simultaneously. That did not happen at Lockerbie, and the falling elements were large enough to have radar traces.
However, the instantaneous break-up and power-loss did happen with the Air Italy DC-9, thought to be a missile explosion close to or inside the airframe. Again, detailed examination of radar traces helped the theorists to focus in.
However, the instantaneous break-up and power-loss did happen with the Air Italy DC-9, thought to be a missile explosion close to or inside the airframe. Again, detailed examination of radar traces helped the theorists to focus in.
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Manifest
Sorry WWW but I take exception to publishing a manifest copy in a public forum when maybe all the relatives of those apparently lost may not have been advised.
It is a very pertinent point you make but I get flashbacks to PA103 when I managed to pick a hole in the TIAS system and could pull the passenger list.
Such things are best kept to ourselves.
It is a very pertinent point you make but I get flashbacks to PA103 when I managed to pick a hole in the TIAS system and could pull the passenger list.
Such things are best kept to ourselves.
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Italian passenger
(My quotes never work). If he says he wasn't on the plane but the manifest lists him and he reports his passport stolen - than who was on the plane using his name? And why was it not noticed that this pp was stolen, unless he did not report it which is unlikely. Can that be missed on check in or pass control in KL? Very sad indeed.
(My quotes never work). If he says he wasn't on the plane but the manifest lists him and he reports his passport stolen - than who was on the plane using his name? And why was it not noticed that this pp was stolen, unless he did not report it which is unlikely. Can that be missed on check in or pass control in KL? Very sad indeed.