Jet2 Tailstrike @ FNC
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Jet2 Tailstrike @ FNC
Greetings,
Does anyone know how serious the tailstrike of the Jet2 @ Funchal/Madeira earlier today was?
Very few details available at present.
Does anyone know how serious the tailstrike of the Jet2 @ Funchal/Madeira earlier today was?
Very few details available at present.
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Special training required for FNC and rather more demanding than CMF or SZG, crew have to be approved to operate into FNC, it is often two Captain's (worst combination!) often training Capt's, a lot of diverts into TFS from FNC this week.
Porto Santo is ok for a fuel stop or waiting out a thunderstorm but not much else.
Wind limits for sector 300 - 010 is 15 knts gusting 25 knts, these are mandatory.
FNC is not practical or sensible for medical divert to/from Europe/TFS/LPA
Porto Santo is ok for a fuel stop or waiting out a thunderstorm but not much else.
Wind limits for sector 300 - 010 is 15 knts gusting 25 knts, these are mandatory.
FNC is not practical or sensible for medical divert to/from Europe/TFS/LPA
Last edited by LNIDA; 18th Feb 2014 at 12:33.
Gosh, nothing much changed there eh ? Trap for all of us unsespecting. Way back in '83, FNC was a 'Captains only' and having just got my first Command, was being checked out there by our CP. Usual, talk through the downwind and special procedure (looking for the banana shed ) and a constant highly supportive and complimentary commentary stopped when we agreed that we were ' in the slot'. Thrust levers closed, ready for the upslope and then down-slope off the end of a cliff. B A N G . A touchdown any Navy pilot would have been proud of, taking the first wire. B u r t. CP seemed to have lost his voice as we taxid in. I meekly asked, after the autonomon clean-ups, " Did you get the landing time ? ". 'Well', said he,
'MY watch stopped at 06...................so, I guess, that's it !'. Rotter !
Years later, in trouble for some other offence (think I was laying a senior Trainer's girlfriend ), at check in for a night BAH, Crew Rostering Chief ran up, gave me a hug(yuk) and told me that the ' Heat's off you'. When pushed, he told me that some other bod had just bent the nosewheel of a 757 into the front toilet at FNC ! I blasted off to BAH and after the normal, SOP, crew party, changed into a Hosty uniform and dived into the hotel pool.
Later, Manch to FNC, forecast wx just on limits but actuals well within, taking TFS fuel, took an approach to FNC, didn't like it, went to PSO which then went below limits, by then, not enough fuel for TFS. Now, here's a good Command interview question................."What would YOU do ? " !!!
Point of all this. Watch for the traps. FNC is a big "gotcha" if you are not careful.
'MY watch stopped at 06...................so, I guess, that's it !'. Rotter !
Years later, in trouble for some other offence (think I was laying a senior Trainer's girlfriend ), at check in for a night BAH, Crew Rostering Chief ran up, gave me a hug(yuk) and told me that the ' Heat's off you'. When pushed, he told me that some other bod had just bent the nosewheel of a 757 into the front toilet at FNC ! I blasted off to BAH and after the normal, SOP, crew party, changed into a Hosty uniform and dived into the hotel pool.
Later, Manch to FNC, forecast wx just on limits but actuals well within, taking TFS fuel, took an approach to FNC, didn't like it, went to PSO which then went below limits, by then, not enough fuel for TFS. Now, here's a good Command interview question................."What would YOU do ? " !!!
Point of all this. Watch for the traps. FNC is a big "gotcha" if you are not careful.
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Gordomac, I remember the (AE) B757 nose wheel landing incident almost as if it was yesterday (uhm, wasn't the aircraft reg 'RM'?) and that it tied-up a valuable parking space on FNC's ramp for quite a number of days whilst an engineering team (from Boeing?) patched it up good enough for it to be ferry-flown out of there for repairs. Oh halcyon days. 
Gordomac, I remember the (AE) B757 nose wheel landing incident almost as if it was yesterday (uhm, wasn't the aircraft reg 'RM'?) and that it tied-up a valuable parking space on FNC's ramp for quite a number of days whilst an engineering team (from Boeing?) patched it up good enough for it to be ferry-flown out of there for repairs.
1987 | 2083 | Flight Archive
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Thanks for the link, was an accident report published? I've tried searching the AAIB website under G-BLVH but nothing is appearing (and it's a similar case when I've tried yahoo).
Thanks for the link, was an accident report published? I've tried searching the AAIB website under G-BLVH but nothing is appearing (and it's a similar case when I've tried yahoo).
Apparently the aircraftt spent a couple of months at Funchal being repaired by Boeing, was then ferried back to Gatwick at the end of October 1987 and went back into service shortly afterwards.
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Back to the original post: what info over the sate of the a/c and what happened with the outbound pax etc? I wonder how long the winds remained and thus the delay for the rescue a/c.
I can't see any evidence on the flight-tracking websites of the aircraft's return to the UK, so it could well still be at FNC.
I suspect that the "minor damage" reported by AvHerald may have turned out not to be quite so "minor".
I suspect that the "minor damage" reported by AvHerald may have turned out not to be quite so "minor".
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Doom merchants ?
While tail strikes on landing with the B738 are usually more serious than ones on take off it has to be remembered that the aircraft is fitted with a tail skid and compressable cartridge to absorb the impact.
The result of this is that a minor scrape of the tail skid will not automatically damage the aircraft and may well not take it outside the maintenance manual limits.
So to instantly assume that major damage will be the result of putting the tail skid on the floor it a gross distortion of the facts.............. But it makes good reading on here and a cheap and lazy way for the newspapers to print more misinformed rubbish dressed up as fact.
The result of this is that a minor scrape of the tail skid will not automatically damage the aircraft and may well not take it outside the maintenance manual limits.
So to instantly assume that major damage will be the result of putting the tail skid on the floor it a gross distortion of the facts.............. But it makes good reading on here and a cheap and lazy way for the newspapers to print more misinformed rubbish dressed up as fact.
Doom merchants? The incident occurred seven days ago. Surely, if the damage is not serious the aircraft could have been recovered by now. I got away over 100 landings at Funchal in the 757 and was able to follow the progress of the repairs on G-BLVH. Not only was the nose gear pushed up and back, the creases in the fuselage looked very serious. I think Boeng replaced the front fuselage, but I could be wrong. Anyway, VH handled normally after we got it back.
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When the windsocks on the airfield point in different directions and the winds all have names, this must raise an eyebrow…. Tailstrikes on take off are the more common of the two here and usually caused by an increase in tailwind, just on rotate…
But things happen in everyday flying, usually due to the holes lining up in the cheese due to several factors, and risk limitation is what we do every day, only to be caught out occasionally and I'm sure Jet2 management will have assessed the risks in depth and written their Cat C Airfield Brief accordingly, i.e. bleeds off, flaps 15 maybe, no assumed or derate etc etc, and the crew worked to these SOPs to avoid a tailstrike. I know FNC tarmac is much longer than it used to be but the hill is still there, as are the winds so we must get our ducks in a row and get the gods on our side to the maximum extent.
I hope Jet2 don't blame the crew and instigate one of their famous kangaroo courts under the guise of HR procedures. Sh1t happens, and as A and C says the 800 has a sexy tail bumper which probably (I hope…) did what it said on the tin.
But things happen in everyday flying, usually due to the holes lining up in the cheese due to several factors, and risk limitation is what we do every day, only to be caught out occasionally and I'm sure Jet2 management will have assessed the risks in depth and written their Cat C Airfield Brief accordingly, i.e. bleeds off, flaps 15 maybe, no assumed or derate etc etc, and the crew worked to these SOPs to avoid a tailstrike. I know FNC tarmac is much longer than it used to be but the hill is still there, as are the winds so we must get our ducks in a row and get the gods on our side to the maximum extent.
I hope Jet2 don't blame the crew and instigate one of their famous kangaroo courts under the guise of HR procedures. Sh1t happens, and as A and C says the 800 has a sexy tail bumper which probably (I hope…) did what it said on the tin.
But things happen in everyday flying, usually due to the holes lining up in the cheese due to several factors, and risk limitation is what we do every day, only to be caught out occasionally and I'm sure Jet2 management will have assessed the risks in depth and written their Cat C Airfield Brief accordingly, i.e. bleeds off, flaps 15 maybe, no assumed or derate etc etc, and the crew worked to these SOPs to avoid a tailstrike. I know FNC tarmac is much longer than it used to be but the hill is still there, as are the winds so we must get our ducks in a row and get the gods on our side to the maximum extent.
So to instantly assume that major damage will be the result of putting the tail skid on the floor it a gross distortion of the facts
But the fact that the aircraft has been at FNC for a week now, following the incident, would suggest that we're not simply talking about replacing the crushable cartridge.
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the 800 has a sexy tail bumper which probably (I hope…) did what it said on the tin.
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The tail skid doesn't even come into it with a tailstrike on landing. During take off the a/c rotates around the main gear therefore, the point on the fuselage which would contact the runway is fixed. That is where the tail skid is positioned. During landing before the gear touches, the a/c is rotating around the c of g which is not in a fixed position. Even if the tail touches after main gear touchdown, the compression of the struts then also makes a big difference. Tailstrikes on landing are much more common a than takeoff on the 738. I found this v surprising as I only ever hear about tailstrikes on takeoff in my company. However it seems that most takeoff tailstrikes are subsequently re classified as tail scrapes when the only action required is replacement if the tail skid assembly.
Last edited by ast83; 24th Feb 2014 at 10:57.
