Looks like Lion Air bent another one.
In a few years from now when P2fly and outsourcing really gains momentum the whole world can enjoy the abysmal safety record of Indonesia. I suspect I'll have to take a boat to my vacation when I retire, at least it will have less speed on impact.
Last edited by RTO; 4th Feb 2014 at 20:54.
Sooner or later Lion (if accidents continue at this drastic rate), will turn into another Adam "The Flying Circus" Air....vanished with only a few memories, just my 2 cents..
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^^^^ NaH! Tin tube stops abruptly, pax are launched through the air.....if that isn't "making people fly", what is? 
3rd. world country, life is cheap and held in low regard.......don't apply first world standards of expectations and you won't be disappointed....otherwise, leave them to mature into a modern, first-world culture in their own good time.
3rd. world country, life is cheap and held in low regard.......don't apply first world standards of expectations and you won't be disappointed....otherwise, leave them to mature into a modern, first-world culture in their own good time.
Not to worry 
Boeing just announced that 737 production has just been increased to 42 air frames per month. There is no danger that Boeing can't build them faster than Lion Air can wreck them.
Boeing just announced that 737 production has just been increased to 42 air frames per month. There is no danger that Boeing can't build them faster than Lion Air can wreck them.
About 10 years ago, a Garuda pilot seriously bent a brand new 737 before it was even delivered (not sure if it was pilot training or customer acceptance flight - it was kept pretty quiet aside from a few photos that were quickly scrubbed from the Boeing internal web)
But that being said, while in Indonesia I'd still rather fly Lion or Garuda than deal with the even scarier alternatives
But that being said, while in Indonesia I'd still rather fly Lion or Garuda than deal with the even scarier alternatives
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After my previous airline shut down a few of our people went to Garuda to fly the shiny new CRJ-1000s. I just couldn't make myself go all the way to Indonesia to log more right-seat time in a CRJ.
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Flew out of SUB/WARR last month and saw PK-LFH in the apron stripped of its engine. Next to it is another 737-NG by Lion and I couldn't make out the registrations PK-LG? also stripped of its engines, but I can't seem to find news about the later.
Those familiar with SUB/WARR would notice at any point of time there's always few Lion 737NGs seemingly idling in the Naval Hangar... anyone knows why?
Those familiar with SUB/WARR would notice at any point of time there's always few Lion 737NGs seemingly idling in the Naval Hangar... anyone knows why?
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Flew out of SUB/WARR last month and saw PK-LFH in the apron stripped of its engine. Next to it is another 737-NG by Lion and I couldn't make out the registrations PK-LG? also stripped of its engines, but I can't seem to find news about the later.
Those familiar with SUB/WARR would notice at any point of time there's always few Lion 737NGs seemingly idling in the Naval Hangar... anyone knows why?
Those familiar with SUB/WARR would notice at any point of time there's always few Lion 737NGs seemingly idling in the Naval Hangar... anyone knows why?
And why you always see Lion planes, sometimes with parts missing, in SUB (south apron), is that it is a Lion maintnance facility.
I see a few comments on Lion pilots in this tread. Lion pilots consist of
- mostly local captains, some expats
- a majority of western FO's last couple years (but decreasing percentage)
- many indian FO's (also decreasing)
I have to say that western pilots has not been involved in any accidents or incidents I know of. Indian FO's has been involved in most, including Bali and the one discussed here.
Lion captains, locals, has the same level of knowledge/skill as in other companies in Indonesia. Most are from other companies, including from Garuda. Unfortuately, many has low standard compared to western standards. This is a problem for the nation, not only in Lion.
When this is combined with
- landing on many short runways
- often in tailwind, as many airports has approaches to only one RW and some has one way in, one way out, due to terrain
- many VOR approaches, often not alligned with RW (both Bali and SUB was VOR app)
- even an NDB circling approach (not even in the database) tracking oubound two NDB's with two missed approcah proc depending where you are in app, ending at 1000 feet 90 degrees to the RW faceing a vulcano, with a short runway and often gusty winds
- tropical weather
- a company with chiefs that dont accept fatigue etc as reason not to fly and dont like pilots that call in sick
- a culture where you shouldnt question a higher rank (and they sometimes has limited knowledge and skill) and a FO know the company in any event will support a capt over him
- a difficult plane to land (900ER)
- 5-700 flights every single day
- Poor ATC compared to western standards
- Corruption in all levels of government
Yes, then you will have a few incidents every now and then. Any company in the world would have higher risk in Indonesia. An Indonesian company even higher.
But Garuda is no better. They have the same local pilots and the same skill and knowledge, and a much poorer track record (do a "garuda accident" google pic search
)And with expats leaving, its not likely to improve.
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From the Lion Air website (my bolding):-
A ditching would suggest intentionally putting it down on water.
I think this would be more accurately described as a crash as most pilots tend not to "ditch" fully serviceable aircraft!
Fleet
last update
Current:
4x 737-400, 16x737-800, 68x 737-900ER, 2x MD-90, 2x 747-400 (one 737-800 lost on Bali during ditching) 13/Apr/13
last update
Current:
4x 737-400, 16x737-800, 68x 737-900ER, 2x MD-90, 2x 747-400 (one 737-800 lost on Bali during ditching) 13/Apr/13
I think this would be more accurately described as a crash as most pilots tend not to "ditch" fully serviceable aircraft!
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Another two-bit, rock bottom, abysmal airline with truly dreadful standards of safety. Although it does not operate to the EU, it is on their list of banned airlines. The list of air carriers banned in the European Union is a blacklist which includes airlines from countries with safety concerns due to alleged poor maintenance and regulatory oversight standards on the part of the EU, preventing them from entering the airspace of any member state. The first version of the list was published in 2006, on the legal basis of the Regulation No. 474/2006 of the European Commission, issued on 22 March of that year. The current version of the list was published on 10 July 2013. I cannot see any time soon when they will leave that list. The truth is that Indonesia is not fit to run a commercial aviation operation but does so anyway. They are so far behind western standards of safety that it is embarrassing - not that such criticisms seem to concern them unduly. Such is the nature of flying in that part of the world.
