Boeing 747 Dreamlifter lands at wrong airport
I have not listened to the communications.
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Confession time-Lotsa fields around ICT!
If ATC hears a scheduled flight number, and you sound confident enough, they will probably assume that the crew had been on that flight before.
There I was, on a severe clear day, in the early '80s, coincidentally at Wichita,KS, the only really close shave I had at landing at the wrong airport.
Coming from Dallas, destination Mid-Continent, Tracon positioned for downwind, kept calling field at 11, 10 then 9 o'clock, and being a young (er) sucker, I accepted the visual. Tight turn to final, could not see any traffic that Twr kept calling, started to think not all ok, but when on short final, seeing a bunch of grey 'airline' jets parked near the end of the runway, we all decided at the same time that we were about to land at McConell AFB!
Quick go around, land at Wichita a few mins later. "Apologies to the Air Force tower" .......No worries, all ready talked to 'em, told them you were doing a practice approach to 19L @ McConnell!" Never heard another word.
My lesson was clear, do not get suckered in if you are not familiar, by ATC or yourself. Nowadays, of course with all the magenta wizbangs, there is less chance. I can't remember the last time someone briefed "visual back up by theILS, any questions? 'Briefings nowadays are not very brief, are done at 200miles out and are mostly irrelevant to the destination'
Finally, I would suggest that visual arrival incidents to the wrong airport are probably on the decrease because in my experience (not really their fault either, we only do in the sim, rarely on line) many 'international airline pilots' could not successfully complete a visual approach if their life depended on it.
There I was, on a severe clear day, in the early '80s, coincidentally at Wichita,KS, the only really close shave I had at landing at the wrong airport.
Coming from Dallas, destination Mid-Continent, Tracon positioned for downwind, kept calling field at 11, 10 then 9 o'clock, and being a young (er) sucker, I accepted the visual. Tight turn to final, could not see any traffic that Twr kept calling, started to think not all ok, but when on short final, seeing a bunch of grey 'airline' jets parked near the end of the runway, we all decided at the same time that we were about to land at McConell AFB!
Quick go around, land at Wichita a few mins later. "Apologies to the Air Force tower" .......No worries, all ready talked to 'em, told them you were doing a practice approach to 19L @ McConnell!" Never heard another word.
My lesson was clear, do not get suckered in if you are not familiar, by ATC or yourself. Nowadays, of course with all the magenta wizbangs, there is less chance. I can't remember the last time someone briefed "visual back up by theILS, any questions? 'Briefings nowadays are not very brief, are done at 200miles out and are mostly irrelevant to the destination'
Finally, I would suggest that visual arrival incidents to the wrong airport are probably on the decrease because in my experience (not really their fault either, we only do in the sim, rarely on line) many 'international airline pilots' could not successfully complete a visual approach if their life depended on it.
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Recall a similar story from the 1960s about a 707 (TWA?) that managed to land at RAF Woodford, rather than Manchester Ringway.
Capt asked for taxi instructions to be told that the tower did not have him in sight... 'describe your surroundings'.... 'large camouflaged hangar to the east'.... 'that's Woodford alright!'
Off-load pax, strip-out of seats, off-load of fuel and quick hop over to MAN. Problem solved.
Can anyone confirm details???
Capt asked for taxi instructions to be told that the tower did not have him in sight... 'describe your surroundings'.... 'large camouflaged hangar to the east'.... 'that's Woodford alright!'
Off-load pax, strip-out of seats, off-load of fuel and quick hop over to MAN. Problem solved.
Can anyone confirm details???
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Looks like this was not the first time Atlas landed at the wrong airport in a 747.
In all fairness these airports were probably not in the FMC NDB and it was strictly a VFR operation.
December 24, 1996 - An Atlas Air 747 bound for Pinal Airpark (MZJ) in Marana, Arizona, mistakenly lands at Avra Valley Airport (AVW). Link. Linky does not work.
In all fairness these airports were probably not in the FMC NDB and it was strictly a VFR operation.
December 24, 1996 - An Atlas Air 747 bound for Pinal Airpark (MZJ) in Marana, Arizona, mistakenly lands at Avra Valley Airport (AVW). Link. Linky does not work.
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OV-1 Mohawk-Seaboard World DC-8 lands at Marble Mountain- Vietnam.m4v - YouTube
The F/O was PF, was named VP Flt Ops after Seaboard was bought by Flying Tigers. The Captain retired 15 years later as a B747 Captain
The F/O was PF, was named VP Flt Ops after Seaboard was bought by Flying Tigers. The Captain retired 15 years later as a B747 Captain
This is one of those historical screw ups that repeats over and over like taking off or landing on the wrong runway or landing on a taxiway.. At least no one has ever landed on the wrong taxiway...
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olasek
atc does have to monitor your progress in order to comply with its mandate, its top priority:
keep IFR traffic apart.
who would know if IFR traffic was being kept apart if atc were not fully aware of all known IFR traffic's location?
and the plane was not on a visual apch, it was cleared for an RNAV/GPS apch...read the first post.
so olasek...the 747 didn't cancel, was still on an IFR clearance and should have been tracked by tracon. Was radar service cxld? I don't think so.
atc does have to monitor your progress in order to comply with its mandate, its top priority:
keep IFR traffic apart.
who would know if IFR traffic was being kept apart if atc were not fully aware of all known IFR traffic's location?
and the plane was not on a visual apch, it was cleared for an RNAV/GPS apch...read the first post.
so olasek...the 747 didn't cancel, was still on an IFR clearance and should have been tracked by tracon. Was radar service cxld? I don't think so.
Recall a similar story from the 1960s about a 707 (TWA?) that managed to land at RAF Woodford, rather than Manchester Ringway. Can anyone confirm details???
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Just get a visual approach because that doesn't cancel your IFR, it just allows you to deviate from the restrictions of the approach and they are still monitoring you.
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I have when on an ILS and another airliner overshot final approach helped the tower out by saying we will do a visual to follow since spacing was less than standard since he turned in front of me and was less than three miles when he got back on centerline. Otherwise they would have had to make a go around for someone because we were close in.
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parabellum
bubbers is right
just being switched to tower doesn't mean you are not IFR anymore...with visual apch clearance or any other apch clearance.
tower is part of ATC, many have radar repeaters or ''bright scopes'' and a direct line to apch control...indeed, at times certain up //down towers only one person is on duty (until they fell asleep that is) and they do it all, apch, dpch, tower, ground etc.
once you are in radar contact, you remain in radar contact until advised (beyond massive failures)
about separation...if you are on a visual apch you have the same responsibilities for see and avoid as any other time in VMC.
there is a little known requirement of ATC which is to point out traffic to all jet powered aircraft
bubbers is right
just being switched to tower doesn't mean you are not IFR anymore...with visual apch clearance or any other apch clearance.
tower is part of ATC, many have radar repeaters or ''bright scopes'' and a direct line to apch control...indeed, at times certain up //down towers only one person is on duty (until they fell asleep that is) and they do it all, apch, dpch, tower, ground etc.
once you are in radar contact, you remain in radar contact until advised (beyond massive failures)
about separation...if you are on a visual apch you have the same responsibilities for see and avoid as any other time in VMC.
there is a little known requirement of ATC which is to point out traffic to all jet powered aircraft
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flarepilot - a lot of poppycock.
How many hours of IFR do you have in your logbook because your posts are full of babble that clearly shows some skin-deep knowledge (perhaps from this forum) and nothing more.
ATC controllers are not in fault in this case or in any other similar case when pilot managed to screw up and landed at the wrong airport, no ATC procedures were violated. There was probably clear night, pilot declared runway in sight and he got his clearance, if KIAB was a busy place - the story could have been different with controllers scrambling to provide separation and someone would have noticed something was amiss.
How many hours of IFR do you have in your logbook because your posts are full of babble that clearly shows some skin-deep knowledge (perhaps from this forum) and nothing more.
ATC controllers are not in fault in this case or in any other similar case when pilot managed to screw up and landed at the wrong airport, no ATC procedures were violated. There was probably clear night, pilot declared runway in sight and he got his clearance, if KIAB was a busy place - the story could have been different with controllers scrambling to provide separation and someone would have noticed something was amiss.
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Flarepilot has a lot more IFR time than you do, mostly in airliners and knows how everything works in the ATC system because he has shown his knowledge here repeatedly. What have you shown of your supreme knowledge here???
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you are changing your tune, olasek.
did I ever say: controllers were at fault?
no
and you sure came up with a bunch of PROBABLY:
probably declared runway in sight...even though the first post plainly says they (plane) was cleared for an RNAV/GPS apch.
as far as my qualifications and knowledge, you couldn't touch my experience.
I will happily point you towards the AIM and pilot controller responsibility but you are so out of it as to make me laugh.
did I ever say: controllers were at fault?
no
and you sure came up with a bunch of PROBABLY:
probably declared runway in sight...even though the first post plainly says they (plane) was cleared for an RNAV/GPS apch.
as far as my qualifications and knowledge, you couldn't touch my experience.
I will happily point you towards the AIM and pilot controller responsibility but you are so out of it as to make me laugh.
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The way I understand it is that is that the IAF for the intended airport and the FAF for the unintended airport are coincident (on an RNAV approach). The 4000 foot crossing restriction over the IAF put them way below a 3 degree GS for the intended airport, but put them basically on the GS for the unintended airport. They break out and have a runway in front of them with good PAPI indication. The crew transitions to the PAPIs and the rest is history. What the FMS is doing at this point is conjecture, and I will leave it to those more knowledgeable in the specific systems. Is it possible that if WITBA was coded or entered at 4000 in the FMS their vertical deviation indicator on the Primary Flight Display would have shown them on the correct profile at that point?
Last edited by acroguy; 23rd Nov 2013 at 01:18.
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phiggsbroadband:
Of course this could be a publicity stunt by Boeing...
Most people in the cultural areas of the world have never heard of a 'Boeing Dreamlifter', but have a good knowledge of the 'Airbus Beluga'...
Of course this could be a publicity stunt by Boeing...
Most people in the cultural areas of the world have never heard of a 'Boeing Dreamlifter', but have a good knowledge of the 'Airbus Beluga'...
I take it that Wales is the cultural center of the world.