Ryanair to pay €10 million in French labour law case
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.......obligatory social security charges including pension contributions that seem not to have been paid by the employer on salaries of up to 127 staff working in France during a period since 2007.
What of the so-called contractors? If we understand correctly most of the pilots & cabin crew at RYR are not employees. How does this result effect them? If they too are deemed to be owed pensions etc. what of the same in other countries?
What of the so-called contractors? If we understand correctly most of the pilots & cabin crew at RYR are not employees. How does this result effect them? If they too are deemed to be owed pensions etc. what of the same in other countries?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vobiscum
Up until quite recently this WAS allowed under European law for aircrew working in one state but employed by a carrier in another, however. . . the French have not accepted this argument for a long time, even if it was strictly legal in Europe.
The new laws which came into effect around the beginning of this year/end of last year (depending on the country in question) state that social charges must be paid in the country of "base". It is perhaps the harmonisation of this throughout Europe that has provided the final impetus for the conclusion/success of this claim. . . and may well do so in Itay/Norway/Belgium in the future.
This may well be the 1st nail in the coffin for a legal loophole (now closed) that has saved Ryanair a very tidy sum indeed this last 10+ years.
RAT 5 , indeed . . the lid of Pandoras box is merely ajar, wait till it is finally prised off.
Up until quite recently this WAS allowed under European law for aircrew working in one state but employed by a carrier in another, however. . . the French have not accepted this argument for a long time, even if it was strictly legal in Europe.
The new laws which came into effect around the beginning of this year/end of last year (depending on the country in question) state that social charges must be paid in the country of "base". It is perhaps the harmonisation of this throughout Europe that has provided the final impetus for the conclusion/success of this claim. . . and may well do so in Itay/Norway/Belgium in the future.
This may well be the 1st nail in the coffin for a legal loophole (now closed) that has saved Ryanair a very tidy sum indeed this last 10+ years.
RAT 5 , indeed . . the lid of Pandoras box is merely ajar, wait till it is finally prised off.
Last edited by captplaystation; 3rd Oct 2013 at 11:52.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: France
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is worth remembering that the socio-political actors in Marseille opposed the state/union action and supported Ryanair in this matter. Obviously they have a different agenda to the government, but it is also worth remembering that the unions in France represent a massive 8% of the total workforce ... and that is an average that includes a 15% participation amongst state/semi-state workers.
Right now, the unions (who do not represent 92% of France's workforce) are rejoicing at having forced the closure of some major retailers who had the affrontery to stay open until 10pm on weekdays and employ aspiring greedy capitalists (or what we outsiders call 'students') to do their law-breaking work for them. Ditto for daring to perturb the peace and quiet of the Lord's Day - the same Lord who must not be allowed show His face in any school or any other institution of the Sacred Secular République.
France today is riven by arguments over, and allegations of, travail dissimulé and concurrence déloyale and it may be that losing a case of this magnitude is the kind of kick up backside the country needs to join the 21st Century.
Looking at it from a different perspective, Ireland and France had a "face off" over corporation tax during the Sarkozy years and France blinked first. Ryanair are now saying publicly that, if they lose, they'll reclaim all taxes and social charges already paid to the Irish state for the workers concerned. So they'll have Joan Burton, Michael Noonan and Leo Varadkar taking a very (pro?)active interest in the outcome, while their counterparts in France are struggling to deal with their own voters.
Right now, the unions (who do not represent 92% of France's workforce) are rejoicing at having forced the closure of some major retailers who had the affrontery to stay open until 10pm on weekdays and employ aspiring greedy capitalists (or what we outsiders call 'students') to do their law-breaking work for them. Ditto for daring to perturb the peace and quiet of the Lord's Day - the same Lord who must not be allowed show His face in any school or any other institution of the Sacred Secular République.
France today is riven by arguments over, and allegations of, travail dissimulé and concurrence déloyale and it may be that losing a case of this magnitude is the kind of kick up backside the country needs to join the 21st Century.
Looking at it from a different perspective, Ireland and France had a "face off" over corporation tax during the Sarkozy years and France blinked first. Ryanair are now saying publicly that, if they lose, they'll reclaim all taxes and social charges already paid to the Irish state for the workers concerned. So they'll have Joan Burton, Michael Noonan and Leo Varadkar taking a very (pro?)active interest in the outcome, while their counterparts in France are struggling to deal with their own voters.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Balpamyass Palace
Age: 53
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The french URSSAF, CRPN together with the union SNPL are catching all the companies who've broken the local law. Some more companies are currently in the pipeline and will have to pay really big fines...
Last edited by wind check; 3rd Oct 2013 at 15:48.
The french URSSAF, CRPN together with the union SNPL are catching all the companies who've broken the local law. Some more companies are currently in the pipeline and will have to pay really big fines...
Not necessarily as just because France decides it will impose a local law doesn't mean it will apply. EU law may say something completely different and I wait until many other companies are fined. Then lots more Govts will decide that France is not deciding EU policy.
as just because France decides it will impose a local law doesn't mean it will apply. EU law may say something completely different
The new laws which came into effect around the beginning of this year/end of last year (depending on the country in question) state that social charges must be paid in the country of "base".
Last edited by wiggy; 4th Oct 2013 at 08:11.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Madrid
Age: 38
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well they don't really walk up to the plane with tea and biscuits and ask the pilots where they are paying their social taxes.
They ( the french police) come up to the plane, ask for their work contracts, and then arrest the pilots and CA. This is how it happened in Marseille for instance
They ( the french police) come up to the plane, ask for their work contracts, and then arrest the pilots and CA. This is how it happened in Marseille for instance
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Madrid
Age: 38
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is a monopoly in disguise, make no mistake, the laws and regulations in this matter are influenced by union(s) who cannot imagine anyone from outside eating their cake. It is not about equality as the French heritage promotes (Egalite, Faternite, etc), it is about the French being angry that someone else succeeds where they have failed, and they (the French CAA backed by French unions), will do anything possible to ensure if they can't succeed, no one else should on their own territory.
The french are not angry to see anyone else succeed , but they do expect it to be fair competition.
Anyway, the French "exception" is here to stay, same with speaking French on the radio in major airports like CDG... unions are too strong to change mentalities. But that is another subject.
I'm sure you remember french is an ICAO official language. Italian and dutch are not, and are frequently used in FCO and AMS...
Last edited by dudubrdx; 4th Oct 2013 at 10:08.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The french exception ?
Oh come on... look at your country...wanting to follow EU laws, while you still use sterling money and drive on the left
French is an official language under ICAO law.
This job has become a joke since FR and all LCC paying peanuts to get monkeys on flight deck. Check Vueling paying 700euros, that's a job for clowns now who are just taxi drivers.
The EU has never been clear about working contracts, that is why MOL plays with it. In France, we are clear about that.
Oh come on... look at your country...wanting to follow EU laws, while you still use sterling money and drive on the left
French is an official language under ICAO law.
This job has become a joke since FR and all LCC paying peanuts to get monkeys on flight deck. Check Vueling paying 700euros, that's a job for clowns now who are just taxi drivers.
The EU has never been clear about working contracts, that is why MOL plays with it. In France, we are clear about that.
The french are not angry to see anyone else succeed , but they do expect it to be fair competition.
How again will AF survive given its Billion Euro loss..............French state will provide a hidden subsidy......... yet again.
How come when slots become available at CDG and Orly that the overwhelming majority always get allocated to AF irrespective of who else is seeking them and AFs special treatment never gets challenged.
France's view of a level playing field is going into a fight where the other persons hands are tied behind its back and they are blindfolded.
This job has become a joke since FR and all LCC paying peanuts to get monkeys on flight deck. Check Vueling paying 700euros, that's a job for clowns now who are just taxi drivers.
Interesting but then again that probably speaks more about your character.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 70
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
France's view of a level playing field is going into a fight where the other persons hands are tied behind its back and they are blindfolded.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Balpamyass Palace
Age: 53
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not necessarily as just because France decides it will impose a local law doesn't mean it will apply. EU law may say something completely different and I wait until many other companies are fined. Then lots more Govts will decide that France is not deciding EU policy.
Ahahahahahahahahaha AhAhahahahahahah
Hmmmm...you'd better inform yourself instead of telling loads of bull****.
If Ryanair doesnt want tonpay the bill they'll get their aircraft grounded by the french authority.
More companies are in the pipeline, the've been braking the law and will soon be faced to the french justice. It'll cost 'em a lot of money!!!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Madrid
Age: 38
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Total BS
How again will AF survive given its Billion Euro loss..............French state will provide a hidden subsidy......... yet again.
How again will AF survive given its Billion Euro loss..............French state will provide a hidden subsidy......... yet again.
I really am WORRIED to see such negativity from the english after someone finally decided to fine Ryanair. You would have thought this was good news....
Edit: and how exactly did this go back to an AF bashing subject??
Last edited by dudubrdx; 4th Oct 2013 at 12:45.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always baffles me the support shown to Ryanair on this forum. They have been profiting from dubious employment practices for such a long time, destroying conditions for pilots across the EU, yet countless posters on this forum show pathetic prejudices instead of agreeing with their punishment for breaking of the law. Bemusing.
I know change was afoot - but have NetJets actually changed their income tax in Portugal and UK National Insurance scheme of manoeuvre for folks scattered round Europe.
Pain and misery for (nearly) all
@dudubrdx
Many of us appear to have been brainwashed into believing that as long as the unemployment rate is rising and ordinary working people are getting poorer year on year, while business owners, shareholders and executives get richer while engaging in massive tax avoidance - our future will be secure.
Zero hours contracts and all that stuff is lauded as being in our interest.
We appear to hate it when workers get a decent deal. All benefits must go to senior executives and shareholders.
Insecurity, pain and misery for nearly everybody is our future.
Vive la France.
PS - got any spare guillotines we can borrow? We are going to need them one day soon.
negativity from the english
Zero hours contracts and all that stuff is lauded as being in our interest.
We appear to hate it when workers get a decent deal. All benefits must go to senior executives and shareholders.
Insecurity, pain and misery for nearly everybody is our future.
Vive la France.
PS - got any spare guillotines we can borrow? We are going to need them one day soon.
