BA faces lawsuit over pilot's behaviour

[Yellow Pen]

Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry

However it should not have been beyond their wit to transfer him to a ground job in Riyadh, the USA or in the UK or at least make sure he was doing routine flights to somewhere like Helsinki or New York where the natives are less impressed by a BA uniform

Notwithstanding the fact that BA has no mechanism to do that and he wasn't even wearing a BA uniform, are you seriously suggesting BA sanction someone on the basis of a completely unproven allegation?

[Chronus]

BA faces law suit

The answer to Capetonian`s question on the understanding it is not rhetorical is "employer`s vicarious liability ". Best illustrated by the Court of Appeal`s ruling in favour of the claimant against Birmingham Archidocese R.C. Church in April 2010 where Father Clonan allegedly had sexually abused the claimant during his youth. One of the determining factors was that the priest was usually dressed in clerical garb. So now we have Gabriel in the employ of BA dressed in a pilots uniform.

[What the Fug]

Originally Posted by Yellow Pen

Notwithstanding the fact that BA has no rmechanism to do that and he wasn't even wearing a BA uniform, are you seriously suggesting BA sanction someone on the basis of a completely unproven allegation?

So you have never moved people, on the Suspicion that leaving them in the same job will come back to haunt you, people do it every day

[EEngr]

Pilot 'abused position to molest African orphans' - Telegraph

His bosses are now facing a lawsuit from his alleged victims, who claim that they failed to protect him.

Am I parsing this wrong? Shouldn't that be "them" rather than "him"?

[EEngr]

So you have never moved people, on the Suspicion that leaving them in the same job will come back to haunt you, people do it every day.

That all depends on the possibility of damage to a professional's reputation and any possible code of ethics (professional or corporate) in place protecting it.

In my biz (engineering), compliance with such a code of ethics is a condition of licensure. And that code prohibits acts that could damage the reputation or business prospects of another member. In addition, it requires that issues of ethical or legal transgressions be handled by "the proper authority". So absent a ruling by CPS (the proper authority in this case?), BA might actually have its hands tied. In this case, a suspicion of possible problems would have to be documented carefully so as not to damage this person's reputation through negligence.

[racedo]

BA would have been on aiding to nothing if they'd acted after "there is no case to answer"

Catholic church has been abused for years using that position.

[racedo]

In addition, it requires that issues of ethical or legal transgressions be handled by "the proper authority". So absent a ruling by CPS (the proper authority in this case?), BA might actually have its hands tied. In this case, a suspicion of possible problems would have to be documented carefully so as not to damage this person's reputation through negligence.

If a BA FO is dressing as a Captain then why did BA not investigate or was it out of sight ? out of mind ?

[FerrypilotDK]

"A friend of mine was a train driver. He had two 'jumpers', as they call them, during his year or so in the job. He was counselled for a month before returning to work after the first and laid off after the second. He is still suffering from the effects, some 5 years later, and it has changed his life for the worst. He will never be the same again."

Same experience here. My father had a friend driving a suburban train and their "jumpers" are right into the windscreen. This friend was so nervous, that he was panic-stricken each arrival at a station platform, seeing "jumpers" in every face. He had to quit of course........

But suicides never seem to think of the family members that have to find the hanging body, the brain splattered on the wall, or the passersby who have a building jumper land in front of them. Jump off a boat with an anvil, save the rest of us from having to clean up after you.

[Yellow Pen]

So you have never moved people, on the Suspicion that leaving them in the same job will come back to haunt you, people do it every day

And you think a company the size of BA could get away with moving an individual pilot away from all long haul flying, outside any individual contracts or industrial agreements, simply on the basis that somebody ten years ago in the UK accused him of being a paedo? I bet Employment Tribunal lawyers would love you!

If a BA FO is dressing as a Captain then why did BA not investigate or was it out of sight ? out of mind ?

He wasn't dressing as a BA captain, he was just wearing a generic pilots uniform with four stripes. It's entirely plausible that as all his charity activities were independent of BA and unendorsed by them that it was BAs way of maintaining separation between his professional role and his personal role.

[racedo]

He wasn't dressing as a BA captain, he was just wearing a generic pilots uniform with four stripes. It's entirely plausible that as all his charity activities were independent of BA and unendorsed by them that it was BAs way of maintaining separation between his professional role and his personal role.

So how exactly does someone who doesn't work with an airline know this ?

[Yellow Pen]

They don't, but I doubt the matter will go unnoticed once someone tries to claim that he was in some way acting in a pseudo-official BA capacity.

[Airclues]

On the BBC news he was shown visiting a Kenyan school wearing a captains uniform with four GOLD stripes. If he didn't claim to be a BA pilot then surely BA have no case to answer?

[racedo]

On the BBC news he was shown visiting a Kenyan school wearing a captains uniform with four GOLD stripes. If he didn't claim to be a BA pilot then surely BA have no case to answer?

Goes back to the question
If BA Pilot visits a Kenyan school wearing a Captains uniform then how are BBC or anybody else expected to know he is not a Captain ?

[Yellow Pen]

The answer is they're not, but you could equally say if a London postman visits a Kenyan school wearing a captains uniform how are they expected to know he's not a captain? It's up to them to establish the bona fides of any visitor. Wood wasn't at any of these places as a representative of BA, he was there as a representative of himself, just like Gary Glitter wasn't in Cambodia as a representative of the British music industry.

[beamender99]

To achieve command at 15 years would require a fleet change, and it must be abundantly obvious why shorthaul would not have appealed.
In my time, the longhaul fleets had their fair share of RHS 'sitters'; who preferred a senior position and accompanying life style with little esponsibility to having to work for a living.

BOAC
A few years ago I had a chat with a similar RHS sitter and he stated that he could not afford to go for promotion as he had 1st call on the "best" routes.

[maf]

So sad. Everyone looses in a case like this. As for BA, I hope they where utterly clueless about his "charity"-work. They cant be responsible for their employees actions as long as they dont know.

A colleague of mine (Im a train driver in Norway), was caught driving his car under alcohol influence (Norway has 0 tolerance). He was sentenced to prison and our employer was informed about it, of course. The CO gave him an unimportant position for 2 years before he could become a train driver again.

Here there was a sentence on which our employer reacted upon. If the FO had been tried and found guilty, BA would surely have reacted upon that, but since he wasnt, how was they supposed to know?

You cant be held responsible for all of your employes actions during off-time, can you?

[Pontius]

So you have never moved people, on the Suspicion that leaving them in the same job will come back to haunt you, people do it every day

Presumably written by a non-pilot. Let's just forget this red herring of BA moving pilots to different positions within the Company. Pilots employed by BA are employed as pilots, they do not get moved around into different positions. Clearly I'm talking about the norm and not, for instance, the occasions when pilots have been used as cabin crew when times were tough.

If Simon was found guilty during the previous investigation, charged and sentenced, then BA would have done something about it. As it was, he wasn't charged and BA would have been subject to some very serious employment regulation breeches had they tried to remove him from his post based on, at the time, unsubstantiated information.

BA normally pounce on PR opportunities and Simon volunteering his time to work in the orphanages etc would have been prime material to promulgate for all to see the selflessness of BA's pilots. The fact that they didn't is one indication they had no idea about his activities outside of work. Likewise, BA do not monitor your every move when down route, so were further unlikely to have a clue. His 'work' was clearly not supported by BA or else he'd almost certainly (at times) be given permission to wear his uniform for PR photos. The fact that he wore a 'fake' is a pretty certain indication that his wearing of his BA uniform was not sanctioned.

Forgetting this happened overseas, BA is not responsible for the actions of its employees 100% of the time. He was off duty when he went to the orphanage and it's no different to, for instance, a Virgin Atlantic pilot date raping a girl in a Crawley nightclub. Why would Virgin be held responsible for something one of their employees did whilst off duty and why should BA be any different? I'm not ignoring the fact that Simon abused his roster bidding position as a pilot to transport him to where he wanted to be but, once there, he's no different to any other Joe Bloggs and was not acting as a BA representative in any way....not even the uniform.

[captplaystation]

The lawsuit against BA will no doubt be motivated by the fact that BA may pay up (something at least) to put the whole affair to bed, & can of course afford to do so, rather than by any conviction that they are somehow responsible.
Undoubtedly legal counsel for the victims has identified them as more affluent ( & vulnerable) than a dead man who is reputed to have just sent 64 grand to Africa to perhaps hush things up.

[A Squared]

Originally Posted by What the Fug

So you have never moved people, on the Suspicion that leaving them in the same job will come back to haunt you, people do it every day

I'm fascinated by this. I'd love to hear how you explain to an airline pilot that based on nothing more than some dismissed charges, you're making him a baggage handler in Riyadh.

[vctenderness]

I was so shocked when I followed the original link to Mail on line and scrolled down to see a face I so recognised!

I had flown with him many times and, of course, had no suspicion of what he got up to.


I would guess BA will pay some money over to victims in Africa to keep the lid on it.


Not a very pleasant case all round is it?