"2010 JFK A380 go-around incident highlights need for change"
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I still don't know the reason for 1000 ft initially?
I've heard mutterings its certified and in use...
While the OP has picked on AF for stuffing up, the report that prompted the thread is a very good read and very educational. Well done to the BEA.
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Quote from Avherald:
Does AF/Airbus SOP not call for speed check before extending the flaps or is everyone just blindly relying on protections? I too would be really surprised in this situation - probably doing VREF+50 and flaps still in mid-range. Surely one could get stabilized before flare? 
At 1600 feet, still at 210 KIAS, the first officer ordered the flaps to position 3, the flaps relief kept the flaps at position 2. At 480 feet AGL the speed was still 210 KIAS and above glidepath about 1nm before the threshold, when the captain, pilot monitoring, ordered a go-around surprising the first officer.
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This crew may have botched their approach but, besides the co-pilot bruised ego, managed to land their A380 safely after a GA.
The Turkish B737 crew in Amsterdam did not,
The Asiana B777 crew in San Francisco did not,
The UPS A300 crew in Birmingham did not,
The SW B737 crew in la Guardia did not,
...
Last edited by valvanuz; 31st Aug 2013 at 10:43.
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McNulty : It was many generations ago (Viscount) but I seem to remember the "R" was for Radio Master Switch. Part of the Autoflight & Smith's Flight system (blimey, when dinosaurs roamed the planet Earth).
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for pete's sake the rest of the Airbii flash lever climb on the fma...how much more do you need!!!....is 380 the same?? and how could a call for go around be a surprise given the situation the aircraft was in??
Last edited by ironbutt57; 31st Aug 2013 at 16:19.
AF has the sad record as being the airline that crashed for the first time every type of Airbus they had . (except the A380)
Ironbutt-
Yes- the 380 is the same
I believe the 380 is now fitted with a soft toga thrust setting, ie in a go around reduced thrust is applied.
Airbii flash lever climb on the fma...how much more do you need!!!....is 380 the same??
I believe the 380 is now fitted with a soft toga thrust setting, ie in a go around reduced thrust is applied.
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and how could a call for go around be a surprise given the situation the aircraft was in??
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...and how could a call for go around be a surprise given the situation the aircraft was in??
Fair question but I'm thinking that being hot and high is not a situation that suddenly happens, you can see it developing way before it does...! Don't be afraid to throw a hint out there now and then folks...! Jezz
Fair question but I'm thinking that being hot and high is not a situation that suddenly happens, you can see it developing way before it does...! Don't be afraid to throw a hint out there now and then folks...! Jezz
Irrespective of the design of the technology involved, this comes down to a total lack of awareness by the operating crew of the environment (aircraft capabilities/human interface and operational environment). Yet again AF have demonstrated poor airmanship and decision making, this time on a fleet that I would have thought comprised of their most capable pilots. It really is very worrying.
Last edited by TopBunk; 1st Sep 2013 at 09:06.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by TB
It really is very worrying.
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Point of information: Airbus, not Air France, won the Hull-Loss race with the A330. Air France operated up to 11 A310s for 18 years without losing one. They're only first on the A300, A320 and A340, and two of the three were maintenance issues.
The logic of the BEA study is interesting. It would seem that a good reason for a G/A is when the PF loses situational awareness. Evidently uttering those words alone doesn't get them ahead of the airplane again.
The logic of the BEA study is interesting. It would seem that a good reason for a G/A is when the PF loses situational awareness. Evidently uttering those words alone doesn't get them ahead of the airplane again.
The Captain contacted ATC on four occasions to request a stabilisation attitude higher than that indicated in the procedure. These communications took up 13 of the 45 seconds of the duration of the go-around.
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ATC Watcher, RE post #41
I'd stay clear of "PARFUM" or any other french mnemonic at this point.
It did not provide any kind of success over the past few years...
How about "fly the bl***y plane" ?
I'd stay clear of "PARFUM" or any other french mnemonic at this point.
It did not provide any kind of success over the past few years...
How about "fly the bl***y plane" ?
Last edited by FLEXPWR; 3rd Sep 2013 at 13:41. Reason: typo
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They're only first on the A300, A320 and A340, and two of the three were maintenance issues.
A supplementary question - what maintenance issues on the A300, A320 and A340 do you refer to, as opposed to pilot operational failings?
Last edited by TopBunk; 1st Sep 2013 at 15:48.
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"The Captain contacted ATC on four occasions to request a stabilisation attitude higher than that indicated in the procedure. These communications took up 13 of the 45 seconds of the duration of the go-around."
Don't know if ATC are aware of aircraft aTtitudes at any phase of flight, but they most certainly are interested in aLtitudes and their effect on the overall plot.
Hope this was what you meant?
Don't know if ATC are aware of aircraft aTtitudes at any phase of flight, but they most certainly are interested in aLtitudes and their effect on the overall plot.
Hope this was what you meant?