Ryanair secrets?
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The implication from the programme seemed to be that a number of RYR pilots had received The Letter and were under pressure to improve their fuel load / turnaround time / flight time so as not to lose their zero-hours contracts.
Presumably pulling the CVR would take up valuable minutes, and perhaps expose the fact that they hadn't actually been flying on fumes?
Presumably pulling the CVR would take up valuable minutes, and perhaps expose the fact that they hadn't actually been flying on fumes?
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Whoa boys, I'm not your enemy (mind you I couldn't give a monkey's if you wish to treat me like one.)
I said that 'encouragement' not to use Prune is not that unusual, some employers put it in the contract. Don't like it, don't sign.
I've left a job due to safety concerns, it's easy - you put in your notice and walk.
Do I use Ryanair? Well I did and I might again in the future - so what?
The Public has a right to know? - Then tell them. Be brave or [email protected] or its equivalent. There are ways.
If you look back through the history of Prune though, there are threads like this over and over again. Nothing changes . . . much.
I said that 'encouragement' not to use Prune is not that unusual, some employers put it in the contract. Don't like it, don't sign.
I've left a job due to safety concerns, it's easy - you put in your notice and walk.
Do I use Ryanair? Well I did and I might again in the future - so what?
The Public has a right to know? - Then tell them. Be brave or [email protected] or its equivalent. There are ways.
If you look back through the history of Prune though, there are threads like this over and over again. Nothing changes . . . much.
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KEEEPING SCHTUM ARE WE??
Please sir, why cannot I find, let alone read, the full Italian accident investigation report into the RYANAIR CRASH & WRITE-OFF at Rome Ciampino following a multiple birdstrike and (allegedly) a go-around which didn't quite work?!
It occurred long enough ago to have the outcome in the public domain and of particular interest to those of us managing NG800 airframes.
It occurred long enough ago to have the outcome in the public domain and of particular interest to those of us managing NG800 airframes.
RHiNo
I am at a airline whose rival is Ryanair.
Mayday calls are made according to our ops manual when we believe we will land below Final reserve fuel. We do not wait till we are at that figure.
Personally I find when it hits the fan in these places it is sensible to be proactive. If I was anywhere near landing with FRF in these circumstances I would declare a mayday.
If I was a Madrid controller.....I would keep my head down !
I am at a airline whose rival is Ryanair.
Mayday calls are made according to our ops manual when we believe we will land below Final reserve fuel. We do not wait till we are at that figure.
Personally I find when it hits the fan in these places it is sensible to be proactive. If I was anywhere near landing with FRF in these circumstances I would declare a mayday.
If I was a Madrid controller.....I would keep my head down !
Uncle Pete
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I was chatting to a friend of mine a while ago who went to work for Ryanair who told me that on his first day he met his Base Captain , who had all the charm and tact of a cornered rat, and was greeted with the comment that that next time we meet will be when I fire you. Nice!
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Well nothing fresh there and nothing to convince me not to fly with them.
Most of those expressing their views obviously have an axe to grind, the Spanish because their uncompetitive airlines have taken a beating from RA and Easyjet and the pilots who surely signed their contracts in full awareness of the less than generous terms and conditions.
Most of those expressing their views obviously have an axe to grind, the Spanish because their uncompetitive airlines have taken a beating from RA and Easyjet and the pilots who surely signed their contracts in full awareness of the less than generous terms and conditions.
Last edited by Superfreighter; 12th Aug 2013 at 21:41.
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Enjoyed the RYR letters in which they replied theres no requirement to pull the CVR CB in a Mayday, then attach the FCI which clearly states to pull the CVR.
As a Judge once said about RYR. The truth and Ryanair make uncomfortable bedfellows.
As a Judge once said about RYR. The truth and Ryanair make uncomfortable bedfellows.
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Unable to watch the show tonight as I'm not in the UK, but judging from reports it's the same old story from ECA. If you're going to go after Ryanair you need to have your story straight and undeniable. If they're dragging up the fuel emergencies again then this show is another joke, the official report is out and the investigation put Ryanair in the clear, with some reasonable recommendations. The fact of the matter is that the crew that night did exactly what they were supposed to do. Dragging it up again will merely gives Ryanair further ammunition to discredit the ECA cause and sue Channel 4.
I have to strongly disagree with all these keyboard warriors who blame pay to fly, MPLs etc. These are the guys and girls who find themselves at the bottom of the heap, in massive debt and with no job, they're left with little options to protect their investment. The reality is, it's not their fault for their predicament, at most naivety. The experienced flight crew, who had enough combined influence during the previous decades, aloud airlines to freely head down this slippery slope which has lead to the situation we have today. It was those who sat quietly watching while airlines brought in self funded type ratings/PTF. Who didn't care as long as their pay wasn't touched, these are the ones who have let the industry degenerate to the state of play we have today.
Although, I don't always agree with their methods, I must admit I do commend the efforts of the ECA in finally attempting to get a hold of the situation. Albeit, a case of closing the door after the horse has bolted.
One thing's for certain flight crew need to stick together if they're to have any hope in lobbying for proper legislation to protect T&Cs and well being of pilots. A good start would be to lobby for EU legislation restricting the use of contractors. Don't lobby on the solitary grounds of safety because it's way to subjective. The underpinning of most of Europes labour law is to insure quality of life, why should airline staff and crew expect anything different? This is the grounds pilots should be fighting their case on.
I have to strongly disagree with all these keyboard warriors who blame pay to fly, MPLs etc. These are the guys and girls who find themselves at the bottom of the heap, in massive debt and with no job, they're left with little options to protect their investment. The reality is, it's not their fault for their predicament, at most naivety. The experienced flight crew, who had enough combined influence during the previous decades, aloud airlines to freely head down this slippery slope which has lead to the situation we have today. It was those who sat quietly watching while airlines brought in self funded type ratings/PTF. Who didn't care as long as their pay wasn't touched, these are the ones who have let the industry degenerate to the state of play we have today.
Although, I don't always agree with their methods, I must admit I do commend the efforts of the ECA in finally attempting to get a hold of the situation. Albeit, a case of closing the door after the horse has bolted.
One thing's for certain flight crew need to stick together if they're to have any hope in lobbying for proper legislation to protect T&Cs and well being of pilots. A good start would be to lobby for EU legislation restricting the use of contractors. Don't lobby on the solitary grounds of safety because it's way to subjective. The underpinning of most of Europes labour law is to insure quality of life, why should airline staff and crew expect anything different? This is the grounds pilots should be fighting their case on.
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Have to say i was looking forward to tonights dispatches, however, i am not as shocked as the programme makers were advertising it to be, which i suppose is only a good thing given
that it is probably a common concensus between both pilots and the public
that there are not planes gimly gliding into barcelona every day.
Do i believe that any of the fears expressed in the none recognised survey
are genuine fears?, yes, to a degree, but im also minded to say that i agree with
Ryanair that the group are not independent of competitor airlines and thus it cannot be said with great certainty that it has the credibility that is needed. I think ryr are right to
have published the letters on their website.
Finally, whilst the programme holds little weight (no pun intended)
and even if the allegations have been fabricated somewhat, i think ryr do need
to take a look at pr a bit more, some of the litigation comes across as
viciously defensive, it gives thrust to the hiding something anology even though
they may not be hiding something. Just my layman thoughts.
I wonder if the minimum reserve fuel needs a legal/regulatory increase.
that it is probably a common concensus between both pilots and the public
that there are not planes gimly gliding into barcelona every day.
Do i believe that any of the fears expressed in the none recognised survey
are genuine fears?, yes, to a degree, but im also minded to say that i agree with
Ryanair that the group are not independent of competitor airlines and thus it cannot be said with great certainty that it has the credibility that is needed. I think ryr are right to
have published the letters on their website.
Finally, whilst the programme holds little weight (no pun intended)
and even if the allegations have been fabricated somewhat, i think ryr do need
to take a look at pr a bit more, some of the litigation comes across as
viciously defensive, it gives thrust to the hiding something anology even though
they may not be hiding something. Just my layman thoughts.
I wonder if the minimum reserve fuel needs a legal/regulatory increase.
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grafity we can agree to disagree on this point. However desperate times call for desperate measures and that desperation for that first elusive job results in more bad mistakes I.e getting into more debt, accepting terms that are ****ty etc....Hence the rub regarding flight schools and certain operators and the situation these guys and gals find themselves in...Where does the naivety stop especially in this day and age when one has all of these great Internet resources available to them. So no I do not buy the naive excuse. Btw how much did your p2f program set you back?
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Don't worry BigD, the only pay to fly I've done has been of the 4 seater variety. I certainly don't envisage ever having the cash to rent a 200 seater.
The point I'm trying to make is that it should be pretty simple, if an airline says they want to bring in PTF and the established crew says they refuse to fly with them, then PTF doesn't work. The naivety doesn't make a difference then. The airline then realises it has to pay for their new F/Os and of course if they're not selecting by the ability to pay they're able to select by the wonderful flying abilities(where I come in).
It's the established pilots who have any hope of regaining any resemblance of a career from this industry not 200hr debt ridding cadets outside some airlines HQ's picketing about the fact they won't hire them.
The point I'm trying to make is that it should be pretty simple, if an airline says they want to bring in PTF and the established crew says they refuse to fly with them, then PTF doesn't work. The naivety doesn't make a difference then. The airline then realises it has to pay for their new F/Os and of course if they're not selecting by the ability to pay they're able to select by the wonderful flying abilities(where I come in).
It's the established pilots who have any hope of regaining any resemblance of a career from this industry not 200hr debt ridding cadets outside some airlines HQ's picketing about the fact they won't hire them.
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Economics boils down to supply and demand.
If pilots want to pay to fly what can be done about it?
I certainly couldn't afford it and would be forced to find some other way of supporting my family.
(Maybe in the future all pilots will be independently wealthy people working for free or even PAYING to fly, thus reducing costs and fares even more which would be one way the 1% could give back to the 99%!)
If pilots want to pay to fly what can be done about it?
I certainly couldn't afford it and would be forced to find some other way of supporting my family.
(Maybe in the future all pilots will be independently wealthy people working for free or even PAYING to fly, thus reducing costs and fares even more which would be one way the 1% could give back to the 99%!)
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When extra fuel is carried it is in case of delays at the destination, it is not carried in case of delays at the alternate. So in most cases when it comes to diverting to the alternate everyone is in the same boat.
Except for the publishing of the league tables and the contract pilots I have witnessed the rest in flag carriers.
The important part which you all have seen to have missed is what the authority does and does not do.
I have had several "dealings" with the IAA and was warned against them as the organisation is a complete waste of space and that there had been a complaint to the minister re corruption.
Silly me ...I ignorred the advice.
Last winter I was involved with Gasci...and the aaiu ...all part of the IAA...absolute waste of space and there are reports which are incorrect to say the least.
I considered writing to the minister of transport but was warned off...this advice
I took.
Look at the Manx crash ...three illegal approaches.
Or their aviation maps of the last decade where the aviation info stopped at the border.
Try visiting licencing.
Read some of the accident reports when you know what actually happened.
File a safety report against an airline and see what response you get.
Contact the flight operations inspector for FR.
Finally what sort of authority allows a CPL/IR to be issued to a 160hour pilot.
Ryanair are an extremely good low cost carrier...O'leary is very clever at just staying within the rules.
They have changed the face of flying and tourism.
I don't agree with the contract pilot situation but Ireland is a country that encourages tax avoidance so it is all part and parcel.
My bug bare is that I expect the authority to ensure that an airline is safe and this in my experience is NOT the case.
The important part which you all have seen to have missed is what the authority does and does not do.
I have had several "dealings" with the IAA and was warned against them as the organisation is a complete waste of space and that there had been a complaint to the minister re corruption.
Silly me ...I ignorred the advice.
Last winter I was involved with Gasci...and the aaiu ...all part of the IAA...absolute waste of space and there are reports which are incorrect to say the least.
I considered writing to the minister of transport but was warned off...this advice
I took.
Look at the Manx crash ...three illegal approaches.
Or their aviation maps of the last decade where the aviation info stopped at the border.
Try visiting licencing.
Read some of the accident reports when you know what actually happened.
File a safety report against an airline and see what response you get.
Contact the flight operations inspector for FR.
Finally what sort of authority allows a CPL/IR to be issued to a 160hour pilot.
Ryanair are an extremely good low cost carrier...O'leary is very clever at just staying within the rules.
They have changed the face of flying and tourism.
I don't agree with the contract pilot situation but Ireland is a country that encourages tax avoidance so it is all part and parcel.
My bug bare is that I expect the authority to ensure that an airline is safe and this in my experience is NOT the case.
Last edited by blind pew; 13th Aug 2013 at 07:34.
Nothing new in this programme which seemed to be designed to feature the presenter rather than the subject.
I will take the safety views of Spanish Air Traffic Controllers more seriously when they stop talking in Spanish in busy airport environments - the old concept of 'look out, listen out' is difficult when pilots and controllers do not use the recognized International language; we all know they can speak English, they simply choose not to do so.
I will take the safety views of Spanish Air Traffic Controllers more seriously when they stop talking in Spanish in busy airport environments - the old concept of 'look out, listen out' is difficult when pilots and controllers do not use the recognized International language; we all know they can speak English, they simply choose not to do so.
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Blimey, just viewed the correspondence on the Ryanair website.
Talk about kicking the hornets nest.
I love how they repeat the safety slogan in italics all the way through the correspondence, like an advertising slogan.
My favourite bit is 'we have offered them legal assurances of no recrimination'. Well, I think any company that has to use that line has serious issues.
Talk about kicking the hornets nest.
I love how they repeat the safety slogan in italics all the way through the correspondence, like an advertising slogan.
My favourite bit is 'we have offered them legal assurances of no recrimination'. Well, I think any company that has to use that line has serious issues.
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I have to strongly disagree with all these keyboard warriors who blame pay to fly, MPLs etc. These are the guys and girls who find themselves at the bottom of the heap, in massive debt and with no job, they're left with little options to protect their investment. The reality is, it's not their fault for their predicament, at most naivety. The experienced flight crew, who had enough combined influence during the previous decades, aloud airlines to freely head down this slippery slope which has lead to the situation we have today. It was those who sat quietly watching while airlines brought in self funded type ratings/PTF. Who didn't care as long as their pay wasn't touched, these are the ones who have let the industry degenerate to the state of play we have today.
I can only apologies. As it was my generation who sat on the fence and watched the deteriation of the industry. Not that you can ever get pilots to stick together. It is in their nature to be self centered.
Last edited by IcePack; 13th Aug 2013 at 08:05.
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Sorry but I think that if you find yourself at the bottom of the heap, there are two possible causes:
- you're not worth your pay (less likely)
- you wanted to do the pilot (maybe any other job here) but the market does not need it. I wanted to do the astronaut, but they didn't respond to my resume.
You should study to become a requested professional, not the one you dreamed of and stay unemployed. After that, if you sign a "terrible" contract you can simply blame yourself.
- you're not worth your pay (less likely)
- you wanted to do the pilot (maybe any other job here) but the market does not need it. I wanted to do the astronaut, but they didn't respond to my resume.
You should study to become a requested professional, not the one you dreamed of and stay unemployed. After that, if you sign a "terrible" contract you can simply blame yourself.
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Blind Pew, I've also had to deal with the IAA as well as the CAA and the Luxembourgish. Of the 3 all I can say was that the IAA are the most anal by far about towing the EASA line. Are you sure the AAIU is "all part of the IAA." I'm pretty sure it's an independent body under the of Department for Transport.
I will agree however, the MoT is a waste of space and that the previous one was worse.
GASCI did also come across as a front put in place to keep the IAAs external auditors happy. I never fault as though it was out of genuine interest bar the efforts of the GA members who got involved. If you're GA in Ireland you're definitely made feel like a small fish and a bit of a nuisance. Probably due to the fact the IAA is, to a large extent, ex aircorp and don't seem to want know about the GA scene in Ireland. They're also a semi state with their eyes on making money, of which they probably probably make very little out of GA.
I'm not quite sure why you're bringing up Manx as it was a British company operating a Spanish registered aircraft. The AAIU were tasked with the investigation as it happened on Irish soil. The only involvement the IAA would have had was the airports/ATCs part to play in the crash.
CPL/IR at 160 hours?? I actually know the head of licencing in the IAA and I can assure you he will not budge an inch from PART FCL. The only thing close to a 160 hour CPL is the MPL. As far as I know that's only available at UK and Spanish schools, I believe there's integrated course but not MPLs at the two commercial schools in Ireland.
I will agree however, the MoT is a waste of space and that the previous one was worse.
GASCI did also come across as a front put in place to keep the IAAs external auditors happy. I never fault as though it was out of genuine interest bar the efforts of the GA members who got involved. If you're GA in Ireland you're definitely made feel like a small fish and a bit of a nuisance. Probably due to the fact the IAA is, to a large extent, ex aircorp and don't seem to want know about the GA scene in Ireland. They're also a semi state with their eyes on making money, of which they probably probably make very little out of GA.
I'm not quite sure why you're bringing up Manx as it was a British company operating a Spanish registered aircraft. The AAIU were tasked with the investigation as it happened on Irish soil. The only involvement the IAA would have had was the airports/ATCs part to play in the crash.
CPL/IR at 160 hours?? I actually know the head of licencing in the IAA and I can assure you he will not budge an inch from PART FCL. The only thing close to a 160 hour CPL is the MPL. As far as I know that's only available at UK and Spanish schools, I believe there's integrated course but not MPLs at the two commercial schools in Ireland.