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Qatar 787 smoke

Old 23rd Jul 2013, 21:54
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Relatively speaking, inside the aircraft, which is what we are talking about,
We are talking about this Ethiopian 787, it was not flying, it was sitting on the ground for over 8 h. So if you want to make your comments relevant try to limit yourself to this scenario. On the other hand if you speculate about humidity in flight at least understand environment and Physics because your 15% becoming all of a sudden 57% and your 6000 ft pressure "differential" is totally bogus argumentation.

Last edited by olasek; 23rd Jul 2013 at 21:55.
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Old 24th Jul 2013, 09:56
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Depending on aircraft type, the Zonal Drying™ System consists of one or more zonal dryer units installed at strategic points in the aircraft. Each unit features a slow-moving rotor impregnated with silica gel...
...which is collecting combustible lint and dust and is partially exposed to electrically heated (fairly hot) air, and which cought fire already in the past...
A zonal dryer may sit smoldering in an aircraft hours after it has been switched off.
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Old 24th Jul 2013, 10:00
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Did the Qatar Crew evacuate the aircraft ?
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Old 24th Jul 2013, 11:29
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Depending on aircraft type, the Zonal Drying™ System consists of one or more zonal dryer units installed at strategic points in the aircraft. Each unit features a slow-moving rotor impregnated with silica gel...

So is this 15% humidity thing a planned design 'feature' on the 787 or is it a by-product of the condensation problem with some PR spin to sell it as improved comfort levels ???

In my eyes, these silica gel driers to combat the condensation doesn’t hold much water (no pun intended!), as an engineered high tech solution - if this was by design....
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Old 24th Jul 2013, 12:21
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Makes you wonder if the top half of the fuselage was insulated, would there be less condensation?

Proposed solution doesn't cut it for me, surely you'd be better off incorporating silica gel pre-filter cards on the existing ducting, as and when the cards reach saturation point, replace them.

Installing powered dehumidifiers is just going to introduce more electrical load and failure points. Agree with the comments about lint, etc, tumble dryer lint is well known as a cause of fires.

What you really need is some very dry air to keep humidity within limits, bleed air would do the job nicely!
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Old 24th Jul 2013, 17:14
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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planned design 'feature' on the 787 or is it a by-product of the condensation problem with some PR spin to sell it as improved comfort levels
Other airplanes are made of (mostly) Al which corrodes and the humidity is kept very very low for that reason despite being far from ideal for humans.

From day one it was realised that the 787 did not have this issue and so it was planned to be at a higher level because that is much better for humans.

No conspiracy, no cover-up, honest.
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Old 24th Jul 2013, 17:38
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Momoe:
Makes you wonder if the top half of the fuselage was insulated, would there be less condensation?

It is insulated, like all modern transport category pax aircraft.

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Old 24th Jul 2013, 18:39
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Nice informative picture. Thank you.

As SLF ... Does it work? Are you convinced?

Too many questions, and yet not enough answers from those who are responsible for the safety of Pax and Crew.
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Old 24th Jul 2013, 21:36
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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In reply to Machaca

That looks like acoustic insulation, which is indeed insulation; However it's not the same as the insulation on the lower half of the 787 fuselage which is theoretically capable of reducing burn through time.
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Old 25th Jul 2013, 04:22
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Soooooo....what about the Qatar smoke....still no "leaks" about that?
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Old 25th Jul 2013, 10:51
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What are the green frame structures?

Are those the trays to run wire and cables? Are they aluminum or composite?
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Old 25th Jul 2013, 12:45
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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green frame structures ...

could be the support for hanging the overhead bins ...
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Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:06
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently A7-BCB has not been flying since July 21st.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 09:16
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A7BCB is sealed waiting for Boeing experts to arrive.
It is irresponsible to keep quite and not inform the community! But who wonders??? The aircraft came out of maintenance when it was taxiing to A14. While waiting for crew to arrive 100s of EICAS messages. APU was shutdown and GP connected which tripped three times. Then smoke from a cockpit panel. Aircraft grounded since then.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 12:06
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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NYT brief story. As Wily B effectively says, seems a long time for a "minor" technicality.

QATAR 787 downtime
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Old 27th Jul 2013, 02:59
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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That NY times news story is more interesting by what it doesnt say - i.e. QR says "no comment", Boeing says to ask QR, and the fire brigade supervisor says they had no incidents in the last week?!

That is a straight up lie, plenty of people witnessed 4 fire engines attending the aircraft, it was on stand A14. And it's now under lock and key in the south maintenance hangar at Doha.

Regardless of the actual B787 issue, the bigger story is how much control does QR have over the news media, airport officials and the CAA in that country, that they can just bury a safety critical thing like this?
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Old 27th Jul 2013, 09:04
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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A7BCB is sealed waiting for Boeing experts to arrive.
It is irresponsible to keep quite and not inform the community!
So what would you do? Say nothing at all and wait for the Boeing folks to report on the issue, do what they have and report there is an issue and the airplane is out of service awaiting Boeing's assessment or release some incomplete list of symptoms and allow the 'community' to indulge in speculation and further increase the aura of FUD* surrounding the 787?

Once the facts are known they should be released, I don't dispute that but given the way the press report stuff I can't blame people for saying nothing until those facts, or at least most of them, are known.

* Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt
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Old 27th Jul 2013, 12:08
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Let's get this straight then.

It takes a whole week for the jolly Boeing folks to arrive.
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Old 27th Jul 2013, 18:58
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Standard acoustic insulation, not special anti burn-through insulation on upper half, so Codswallop
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Old 27th Jul 2013, 23:40
  #80 (permalink)  
DWS
 
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Exclamation Uh OH - a few facts re smoke

Attempt to hush up new Qatar 787 fire fails | Plane Talking

Attempt to hush up new Qatar 787 fire fails

Ben Sandilands | Jul 27, 2013 9:04AM | EMAIL | PRINT
*Updated with link to 787 management change
After days of stonewalling it has been confirmed that a Qatar Airways 787 caught fire, according to some reports, in a rear underfloor part of the fuselage, last Sunday as it was moving into position to take off from Doha airport.
The fire has been described as ‘serious’ in some quarters, ‘not serious’ by the airline, and also by one contact as having extensively damaged an important panel in the electrical bay that also caught fire in a test flight Dreamliner in November 2010, causing an emergency diversion to Laredo where that jet was evacuated.
It may be another reason for Qatar Airways to be reluctant to restore its original ambition to fly 787s between Doha and Perth from 1 February, a long oceanic route route with comparatively few emergency diversionary airport options along the way that would have become Australia’s first scheduled Dreamliner service, but has since been overlooked by the airline as it rebuilds and expands its services with the plastic electric jet.


goes on . . .

Note there are two major panels - the one during flight test was essentially under wing trailing edge and would be considered the forward panel

the rear panel is at the aft end of the cargo bay

Last edited by DWS; 27th Jul 2013 at 23:44. Reason: cleanup of stray elements
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