Standard of RT in USA
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Do the 'Merikans still use Inches of Mercury or have they caught on that the Hectopascal is now all the rage? 
If ever there is an industry that needs international standards, it is aviation.
If ever there is an industry that needs international standards, it is aviation.
Last edited by Cows getting bigger; 29th Jul 2013 at 07:16.
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Quote:
Line up and wait
4 words.
4 syllables.
Quote:
Taxi into position and hold
5 words.
9 syllables.
I know which I prefer
Line up and wait
4 words.
4 syllables.
Quote:
Taxi into position and hold
5 words.
9 syllables.
I know which I prefer
After the change, what is the controller supposed to do, issue a clearance like, "Line up and wait, keep it moving...?" Yep, that's really clear. I have never heard a clearance like the first one since the change.
As to ICAO standard English in Europe, I have done quite a bit of flying in the south of France -- always with a French pilot since there is not a word of English to be heard...
If ever there is an industry that needs international standards, it is aviation.
We'll move over to millibars when everyone STANDARDIZES on one transition altitude, may I suggest FL180 and 17,000'?
GF, get ready for the hectopascal...
At least we all have "fish finders" these days if one was to mis set the sub scale...
Line up and wait
4 words.
4 syllables.
Quote:
Taxi into position and hold
5 words.
9 syllables.
I know which I prefer
4 words.
4 syllables.
Quote:
Taxi into position and hold
5 words.
9 syllables.
I know which I prefer
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Quote:
Line up and wait
4 words.
4 syllables.
Quote:
Taxi into position and hold
5 words.
9 syllables.
I know which I prefer
And then of course the real reason -"hold" can be mistaken for "roll"
Line up and wait
4 words.
4 syllables.
Quote:
Taxi into position and hold
5 words.
9 syllables.
I know which I prefer
And then of course the real reason -"hold" can be mistaken for "roll"
That was never in anybody's controller syllabus...
And then of course the real reason -"hold" can be mistaken for "roll"
It maybe only 3 countries using inches, vice millibars, but the USA has just short of 50% of all flying, which counts for something. Canada uses proper inches, too.
It's just a flip of the switch, anyway.
It's just a flip of the switch, anyway.
Last edited by galaxy flyer; 29th Jul 2013 at 22:22.
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Acroguy
"Taxi into position runway 1, keep it moving, be ready to go following the Learjet crossing right to left."
I have never heard a clearance like the first one since the change.
As regards French speaking French in France, I agree - unacceptable.
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Quote:
"Taxi into position runway 1, keep it moving, be ready to go following the Learjet crossing right to left."
So Imagine trying to understand that call, possibly made in a heavy US regional accent and pushed out at high speed, in your second language! I find it hard enough and "English" is my first language. you then say:-
"Taxi into position runway 1, keep it moving, be ready to go following the Learjet crossing right to left."
So Imagine trying to understand that call, possibly made in a heavy US regional accent and pushed out at high speed, in your second language! I find it hard enough and "English" is my first language. you then say:-
The total clearance would probably be more like: " Taxi into position runway 1, traffic landing runway 28, keep it moving -- be ready to go after the Learjet crossing right to left, company on a two mile final for runway 28"
And, in my experience, tower clearances such as these are not typically delivered at high speed. High speed is usually an approach specialty...
Last edited by acroguy; 30th Jul 2013 at 00:08.
ICAO allow in cases where an aircraft is not crossing an international border, they can speak the local lingo. I know this is not the case in France IE AFR and TSC frequently speak French. Unacceptable. As for "Line up and wait" , it's clear, and takes less time to say. When your freq is busy this is an asset, that's why I personally prefer it
Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 30th Jul 2013 at 00:24.
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ICAO allow in cases where an aircraft is not crossing an international border, they can speak the local lingo. I know this is not the case in France IE AFR and TSC frequently speak French. Unacceptable. As for "Line up and wait" , it's clear, and takes less time to say. When your freq is busy this is an asset, that's why I personally prefer it
Is is possible that those operating in other parts of the world have no appreciation of how hard US ATCO's are pushing traffic over here?
acroguy,
Please stop embarrassing us Americans who fly overseas and are under enough embarrassment for our radio "techniques". "Line up and Wait" was a simple improvement. Why would an ATCO say "into position and hold, cleared for immediate"?
pigboat, a couple of syllables, I'd guess and a salute to a forgotten Frenchman like most scurvy metric ideas.
Please stop embarrassing us Americans who fly overseas and are under enough embarrassment for our radio "techniques". "Line up and Wait" was a simple improvement. Why would an ATCO say "into position and hold, cleared for immediate"?
pigboat, a couple of syllables, I'd guess and a salute to a forgotten Frenchman like most scurvy metric ideas.
Last edited by galaxy flyer; 30th Jul 2013 at 01:32.
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I promise to stop contributing to this thread, but I never said the old clearance was "position and hold, cleared for immediate". I said the clearance used to be "taxi into position, cleared for an immediate...". The point being, what is the point of the word "wait" if the clearance is going to be for an immediate?
I also promise to stop being embarrassed for the UK guys who apparently are flabbergasted at being cleared to land 7-8 miles from the airport here in the US. Imagine that. Maybe ICAO could learn something.
I also promise to stop being embarrassed for the UK guys who apparently are flabbergasted at being cleared to land 7-8 miles from the airport here in the US. Imagine that. Maybe ICAO could learn something.
In that case, why not, "cleared for immediate take-off" and drop "into position"? Standard ICAO aviation English requires no more time, just a ommitment to using it properly.
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@acroguy
There is no doubt that the job done by ATC in many places the world round is impressive. Likewise the ability of ORD etc to shift huge total No's if AC from their runways. To them, I doff my hat.
Your assertation that long-winded sentences are necessary to achieve high flow rates is simply WRONG. Purely as an example, London Gatwick achieves the highest flow-rate (by movements per hour) of any commercial airport runway in the world. They have a truly international clientele, and trust me, you Never hear the motivational speaking you have advocated bracketed around the somewhat camouflaged clearance.
I think you are fighting for what you like and prefer, not seeing the big picture. Patriotism, (and I am proud of my country) has no place in Flt Safety.
Your assertation that long-winded sentences are necessary to achieve high flow rates is simply WRONG. Purely as an example, London Gatwick achieves the highest flow-rate (by movements per hour) of any commercial airport runway in the world. They have a truly international clientele, and trust me, you Never hear the motivational speaking you have advocated bracketed around the somewhat camouflaged clearance.
I think you are fighting for what you like and prefer, not seeing the big picture. Patriotism, (and I am proud of my country) has no place in Flt Safety.
Last edited by White None; 30th Jul 2013 at 02:21.
