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Standard of RT in USA

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Standard of RT in USA

Old 18th Aug 2013, 02:02
  #401 (permalink)  
 
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I say FIFE instead of FIVE and NINER instead of NINE and WUN instead of ONE
Got the first two, but WUN for ONE? How do you yanks pronounce wun/one??
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Old 18th Aug 2013, 08:29
  #402 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flarepilot View Post
But, we are still the best.
I'm glad you're time in the cooler hasn't affected your ego sevenstrokeroll.

Welcome back.
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Old 18th Aug 2013, 14:18
  #403 (permalink)  
 
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Don't forget to duck

Con Pilot...Don't forget to duck after lobbing a grenade like that
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 03:05
  #404 (permalink)  
 
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For those outside the US (and maybe those inside) this is how it works here, and works very well, thank you.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7947104/DD2.mp3
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 15:59
  #405 (permalink)  
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The anatomy of a communications breakdown in interpreting a taxi clearance from ATC by an air carrie... - NASA ASRS

Interesting incident report and its best quote in my view:
This ATC ground controller has one field he is master of; I have 65 fields I have to be master of
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 19:18
  #406 (permalink)  
 
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For those outside the US (and maybe those inside) this is how it works here, and works very well, thank you.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7947104/DD2.mp3
Did you intend for that to be used as an example of the efficacy of US r/t?

It is , in fact, an excellent example of poor r/t!

Very non standard and verbose - i would estimate 25% unnecessary words and how many times does he say "no delay"??
How many correct readbacks? Did the atco check any?
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 20:01
  #407 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
For those outside the US (and maybe those inside) this is how it works here, and works very well, thank you.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7947104/DD2.mp3

Did you intend for that to be used as an example of the efficacy of US r/t?

It is , in fact, an excellent example of poor r/t!

Very non standard and verbose - i would estimate 25% unnecessary words and how many times does he say "no delay"??
How many correct readbacks? Did the atco check any?
I intended it to be an example of the real world.
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 20:56
  #408 (permalink)  
 
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Well, considering the references to "Eastern" and "PSA", the recording is over 25 years old.

Sounds to me like the Controller was "In Control".
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 21:12
  #409 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds to me like the Controller was "In Control".
sounded to me like the controller was working VERY hard and improvising
unnecessarily.

I think you've missed the point of this thread.
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 22:07
  #410 (permalink)  
 
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acroguy

It works very well for who? You? Your compatriots? Who else matters eh on this big planet eh?

You are missing the point entirely by not taking on board the fact that its not how well it works for "native" ears that counts. Of course most native English speakers can understand and by understood no matter how gash and unprofessional the RT. However the whole point of standard phraseology is to accommodate and make life safer for EVERYBODY.

Most developed countries who don't have English as their first language make a good stab at keeping it standard (ish), yes there are local nuances and accents and some non-standardisms used, but on the whole they try. What many people outside of the US can't quite grasp is why go out of your way to sound gash when flying at home or elsewhere, when there are clear guidelines set out and being native English speakers its easier for you than most.

So many times through this thread guys from N America use the defence that it "works just fine" "we're ok with it" "yeah but we're the best" "what about you anal lot over there!" blah blah. What sort of defence is that for disregarding rules that most of the world signs up to?

It comes across as pure 100% arrogance.

For balance I've flown a lot in the US and enjoy it immensely and have utmost respect for ATC especially at the bigger hubs, I'm in no way questioning anyone's ability, I just don't understand why it's not easier for ALL to stick to the script to make it easier and SAFER as well as simpler for EVERYONE.
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 22:23
  #411 (permalink)  

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It comes across as pure 100% arrogance.
After reading all the arrogant comments by non-Americans in this thread, all I have to say is; 'Now that is funny and I don't care who you are'.

There is an old saying that this thread reminds me of; 'If ain't broke, don't fix it.'

Do please carry on.
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 22:54
  #412 (permalink)  
 
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Woooooooosssssshhhhhh

The sound of the point going straight over the top of someone's head...again.
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 23:06
  #413 (permalink)  
 
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Summary of this thread to date:

We all do it this way. You have to do it our way.

No. We like our way.

We all got together and voted that you do it our way.

No. Your way isn't our way.

We don't like your way.

Tough. Stay away.

No. You have to do it our way.

Our way works fine.

Beside the point. Do it our way.

No.

Repeat, 430 times.
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Old 22nd Aug 2013, 23:08
  #414 (permalink)  
 
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Well, considering the references to "Eastern" and "PSA", the recording is over 25 years old.

Sounds to me like the Controller was "In Control".
I think that is correct as to the vintage of the recording. However, except for the "Position and Hold" being replaced by "Line up and Wait", it is identical to current practice.

Not to further inflame the discussion, but here is a well-known recording of New York Approach. You will notice that there is really no time for perfect "ICAO approved" R/T but everybody is on the same page, including the foreign carriers.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...R-Approach.mp3
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 06:48
  #415 (permalink)  
 
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OBGRAHAM,
You really have missed the point. The USA negotiated some of and agreed to ICAO standards, they were not imposed externally, they are applicable to domestic and international traffic. Many American pilots appear to be unaware of them and many that are aware seem to delight in ignoring in them. This gives rise to doubt, uncertainty and inefficiency for non-American pilots when flying in the USA and for American pilots outside their own airspace. All of which is avoidable by respecting international agreements. Perhaps you have the same cavalier attitude to your checklists, although I hope not.

Last edited by beardy; 23rd Aug 2013 at 07:33.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 09:37
  #416 (permalink)  
 
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Con pilot

Thank you for single handedly confirming all I suspected!........Frightening.

I'm glad you're unlikely to be flying me anywhere soon, your skills may not be dangerous, even your RT may not be dangerous.......your attitude however.......

YEEEEE HAHH Cowboy!

Last edited by Daily Dalaman Dave; 23rd Aug 2013 at 09:38.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 13:27
  #417 (permalink)  
 
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I blame Hollywood.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 15:34
  #418 (permalink)  
 
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They are just jealous of us Yanks.
I can't believe they are not blaming the recent over runs in Asia on non standard American R/T.....
It's all right. They know more than we do. But here is the rub with that. We invented flying; we have the most complex, busiest and safest airpsace system in the world. We are the real deal, and you jealous gents (Aussies, Canucks, and Kiwi's excluded) are just but a cheap shiny import.

Last edited by TheBigD; 23rd Aug 2013 at 16:41.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 15:48
  #419 (permalink)  
 
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TheBigD, sorry to wee on you breakfast cereal, but there were plenty of other manned flights before the USA was even discovered. Now, if you were to say that you invented powered flight, most of us would tend to believe you although the facts are arguable.

As for the rest, US aviation seems to have had a couple of embarrassing moments recently (bent 737 nose leg, UPS landing somewhat short and a rather surreal fire engine/survivor encounter).

Sure, everything must be absolutely fine and dandy over there.

Right, must go back to my potato famine..........
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 15:50
  #420 (permalink)  

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I'm glad you're unlikely to be flying me anywhere soon
So, you are not a pilot. But yet you assume that you are an authority on ATC issues around the world.

That sir, speaks volumes. And once again, 'That is funny and I don't care who you are.'

As for this snotty little comment;

YEEEEE HAHH Cowboy!
No sir, I am not a cowboy, I am a retired pilot with over 42 years of experience and have over 21,000 hours of flying time. I flew all over the world, including Great Britain many times and around the world. I never damaged an aircraft and never had a violation. One could say a perfect record.

How about you?
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