Asiana flight crash at San Francisco
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Passenger with any sense will indeed take their hand/carry on bags if this is at all possible in the circumstances. They ain't stupid:
They know full well that loosing their personal documentation, passports etc in those bags is going to cause major grief and aggro.
They know loosing their expensive cameras/computer/whatevers etc will start an endless round of argy-bargy with insurance companies. All of whom will try and delay/deny payment - particularly when it's returned "damaged" or mysteriously "lost" and exactly when it was damaged/lost becomes an issue. Then the insurance companies will start demanding purchase receipts for said items...........
Yup, I'd take my stuff as well
They know full well that loosing their personal documentation, passports etc in those bags is going to cause major grief and aggro.
They know loosing their expensive cameras/computer/whatevers etc will start an endless round of argy-bargy with insurance companies. All of whom will try and delay/deny payment - particularly when it's returned "damaged" or mysteriously "lost" and exactly when it was damaged/lost becomes an issue. Then the insurance companies will start demanding purchase receipts for said items...........
Yup, I'd take my stuff as well
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AsRAAM and suninmyeyes
Best posts from more than 350 so far.
Congrats.
Actually some of the few ones worth reading...
Guess you guys came very close, let's see.
Congrats.
Actually some of the few ones worth reading...
Guess you guys came very close, let's see.
Last edited by fullforward; 7th Jul 2013 at 09:07.
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"In our business, Mr. Murphy is always lurking not too far in the background and with these safety enhancers unavailable, Statistics and Probability once again formed an alliance and the dreaded Swiss Cheese holes lined up...." Jasavir
Jasavir, I couldn't agree with you more. By taking both the GS and PAPI out of service at the same time there was an extra hole cut in the cheese that probably needn't have been there.
If this is the case then I hope we can learn the lesson that the temporary removal of a safety barrier might have 'no immediate effect' but it does have an effect.
Jasavir, I couldn't agree with you more. By taking both the GS and PAPI out of service at the same time there was an extra hole cut in the cheese that probably needn't have been there.
If this is the case then I hope we can learn the lesson that the temporary removal of a safety barrier might have 'no immediate effect' but it does have an effect.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
@dcs810.... so if you're in a burning hull after an accident you'd really take your stuff with you? Have you thought about what the 10 second delay might mean to the people 20 deep behind you? IMHO anyone caught on camera taking possessions from a crashed aircraft where people died due to being unable to get out in time should be prosecuted for manslaughter. It's selfish stupidity at it worst. Shame on you.
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SFO and their notorious ATC instructed 'slam dunk' visual approaches from downwind have resulted in so many incidents at our airline that it is a regular item in recurent simulator training.
Throw in the lack of visual or electronic glideslope guidance and the holes are lined up. True, you can set up an LNAV/VNAV profile but this requires a bit of heads down time in the box at a busy phase, not easy unless you are expecting the manouvre.
Airport officials are probably hoping no-one mentions the similar incident last month. Ooops, I just did.
Throw in the lack of visual or electronic glideslope guidance and the holes are lined up. True, you can set up an LNAV/VNAV profile but this requires a bit of heads down time in the box at a busy phase, not easy unless you are expecting the manouvre.
Airport officials are probably hoping no-one mentions the similar incident last month. Ooops, I just did.
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Passenger with any sense will indeed take their hand/carry on bags if this is at all possible in the circumstances. They ain't stupid:
They know full well that loosing their personal documentation, passports etc in those bags is going to cause major grief and aggro.
They know loosing their expensive cameras/computer/whatevers etc will start an endless round of argy-bargy with insurance companies. All of whom will try and delay/deny payment - particularly when it's returned "damaged" or mysteriously "lost" and exactly when it was damaged/lost becomes an issue. Then the insurance companies will start demanding purchase receipts for said items...........
Yup, I'd take my stuff as well
They know full well that loosing their personal documentation, passports etc in those bags is going to cause major grief and aggro.
They know loosing their expensive cameras/computer/whatevers etc will start an endless round of argy-bargy with insurance companies. All of whom will try and delay/deny payment - particularly when it's returned "damaged" or mysteriously "lost" and exactly when it was damaged/lost becomes an issue. Then the insurance companies will start demanding purchase receipts for said items...........
Yup, I'd take my stuff as well
Last edited by NamelessWonder; 7th Jul 2013 at 09:20.
Don't you think as the Engines were ripped off and the AC power dropped off line the tracking data would be lost 
So anything after the wack on the wall would be invalid data .
So anything after the wack on the wall would be invalid data .
Last edited by nitpicker330; 7th Jul 2013 at 09:17.
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What a strange idea, pilots being required to fly their airplane to a visual landing on a clear blue day....who'd expect that?
Just as an example: old schoolers will use a 3x profile for the approach (300' per mile), with no additions here (sea level). Recently I asked for height call outs for an approach to a sea-level airport (as pre-briefed) and the f/o pulled out his iPhone. He had an App for that!
So I asked for the altitude at 8nm - "err hold on a minute..." (frantic keying)
So I asked for the altitude at 6nm - "err hold on a minute..." (frantic keying)
So I asked for the altitude at 4nm - "err hold on a minute..." (frantic keying)
Never did get an altitude check. This is not rocket science, you know.
Last edited by silverstrata; 7th Jul 2013 at 09:39.
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ASRAAM
clear blue skies and 4 highly trained pilots at the controls and none is able to scan the speed indicators?
I won't speculate on the flight envelope that led to this situation but the circumstances (charlie weather and 4 pilots) couldn't be better though.
It is certain that situational awareness in the cockpit must have been unusual for the RWY 28L approach to SFO.
clear blue skies and 4 highly trained pilots at the controls and none is able to scan the speed indicators?
I won't speculate on the flight envelope that led to this situation but the circumstances (charlie weather and 4 pilots) couldn't be better though.
It is certain that situational awareness in the cockpit must have been unusual for the RWY 28L approach to SFO.
Last edited by worldpilot; 7th Jul 2013 at 09:20.
NO IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY TAKING YOUR BAGS WITH YOU.
Wow some people.........
If you want to take your bag then:-
1/ sit in a window seat
2/ wait and be the last one off
Because I'm not waiting for you.
In accidents like this "seconds" can make all the difference.
Ever heard of a British Airtours 737 Fire on takeoff in 1985 Manchester and how many died from smoke and not the Fire.....?
Wow some people.........
If you want to take your bag then:-
1/ sit in a window seat
2/ wait and be the last one off
Because I'm not waiting for you.
In accidents like this "seconds" can make all the difference.
Ever heard of a British Airtours 737 Fire on takeoff in 1985 Manchester and how many died from smoke and not the Fire.....?
Last edited by nitpicker330; 7th Jul 2013 at 09:27.
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Eclan -
Taking what's in your lap is one thing - getting a wheel-type bag out of an overhead locker when you are close to the front of a queue to get off a smouldering wreck when several of the other exits are U/S is imbecillic.
(look at the woman in blue and all the people behind her!)
There's no reason why, given enough time, a bag can't be carried by someone with enough coordination to do so.
(look at the woman in blue and all the people behind her!)
Last edited by NamelessWonder; 7th Jul 2013 at 09:28.
Avoid imitations
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"The pilot's name is Lee Jeong-min, and (he is) a veteran pilot with long experience," said the official, who requested anonymity. "Our investigation committee is looking into the accident in San Francisco," he said.
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What Mode are we in?
Time will tell, but reference to ADIRU Accident Submission will IMHO feature in factors leading to this unfortunate accident.
Time will tell, but reference to ADIRU Accident Submission will IMHO feature in factors leading to this unfortunate accident.
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Swiss cheese.
Assuming many of the above assumptions have some weight, it seems to me that the ethos of our flight safety culture has been to add more layers of cheese by the application of various technologies thus reducing the chances of the holes lining-up. Maybe by doing this we have taken our eye off the ball somewhat and not noticed that the holes in the human factors layers have become significantly bigger.
Assuming many of the above assumptions have some weight, it seems to me that the ethos of our flight safety culture has been to add more layers of cheese by the application of various technologies thus reducing the chances of the holes lining-up. Maybe by doing this we have taken our eye off the ball somewhat and not noticed that the holes in the human factors layers have become significantly bigger.