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Asiana flight crash at San Francisco

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Asiana flight crash at San Francisco

Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:48
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Listening to the ATC tape, the UA885 (the Osaka bound 744 at the holding point) was offered a line-up clearance but declined it as he needed "a few more minutes". I don't think that he would have been offered this clearance if the Asiana 777 had declared an emergency.
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:48
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Assuming (I know..) no mechanical problems, and an undershoot, what's the time frame from recognition and full power application, through spool-up and the plane accelerating and beginning to climb?
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:48
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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At least 2 dead, 12 injured
At least two dead, 12 injured in Boeing 777 crash at SFO | www.ktvu.com
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:50
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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This picture shows the crash happening. Lots of smoke starting from the beginning of the runway
The pilots of the aircraft on foreground must have seen all ot the event ...
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:52
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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photo of crash

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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:52
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Pilot made no distress call prior to landing at San Francisco Int'l Airport, source close to the investigation tells NBC News
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:53
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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KTVU now reports: 2 dead, 61 injured
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:54
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Departed SFO yesterday, no VASIS, PAPIS or ILS at KSFO. Only G/S available according to NOTAMS is what's in your FMS.

It sucks, it's asking for trouble.

Last edited by skol; 6th Jul 2013 at 20:58.
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:54
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Frozen fuel vis lack of fuel, no fuel emergency called but then not many on-route alternatives, lets hold our breath, just saying engines don't respond whatever OEM to throttle with no fuel! Engines off wing, U/c sheared and yet no wing fire to speak of. Nothing yet says he carried max range fuel!

Last edited by aeromech3; 6th Jul 2013 at 20:56.
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:58
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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went into SFO r28L last week, no glide slope, and no papis visual approach only and the DME doesn't read 0dme at the threshols
As I mentioned previously, this is due to the installation of the new glideslope antenna being installed for 28L/R 300ft further down.

The 300ft displaced thresholds are part of the new FAA mandated "Runway End Safety Area (RESA)"

Furthermore, the fact that the DME doesn't show 0DME at the threshold is perfectly normal in the U.S. as the DME for the ILS sits at the localizer and is clearly stated on the charts.
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:59
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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live

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Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:59
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Having watched several photos on the media (live TV), I am shocked that several passengers walking away from the plane were carrying roller bags (which had to have been previously stowed in overhead bins), and large purses, and went down the slides with their bags (or did they toss their bags over ahead of sliding, still incorrect procedure?).

I wonder if casualties were exacerbated by delays in deplaning, which I assume delays had to have occurred in order to accomodate passengers carrying bags and large purses through the aisles and down the slides.

The investigation will need to carefully examine the behavior of the crew and their leadership and guidance to the passengers.
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:02
  #93 (permalink)  

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I may have been a little rash suggesting he'd put out a call - - there's a garbled, stepped on call just prior to everyone going around. The Asiana does call short finals - it's just after that. Prob not related, apologies.
The lack of landing aids sounds "exciting"....

Think I'll defer to the NTSB now!
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:05
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Compressor stall blamed for 777 engine problem | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

Incident in 2009 involving one of this airline's 777s. Caused by a compressor stall -- but not arising from a bird strike.
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:06
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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We've not seen the second engine at all. Is it in the bay?
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:06
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Where is engine 1? In the water?
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:07
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Does SFO have video cameras on the ends of runways for areas ATC cannot see from the tower?
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:08
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by North Shore View Post
Assuming (I know..) no mechanical problems, and an undershoot, what's the time frame from recognition and full power application, through spool-up and the plane accelerating and beginning to climb?
Based on the general regulations and not considering the type:

Go-around performance considers engine thrust after 8 seconds of advancing the levers. That usually means the engines are designed to be close to full power at that point (otherwise you can't take credit for the thrust they can give). So one bound on the time is that 8 seconds.

A second item can be used to gauge this, and that's the AP minimum use height, which is often based on the height you'd lose if you had an AP failure/hardover, and had to react to pull up following the hardover - the height you'd need for all of that is typically in the 50-100ft range. So again, 5-10 seconds. (But that includes the failure and reaction, not just reaction)

Another guide is the fact that aircraft typically flare at 50 ft or so, and that's enough time to smoothly adjust the flightpath to level flight, more or less. A more aggressive flare type manoeuvre would reduce the height required to execute it by a bit.

Generally I've seen the actual aircraft response be pretty fast - once the control input is in, the aircraft starts to respond practically immediately.

If I had to pick a number, I'd say between 2.5 and 5 secs (25-50ft) to arrest the descent and begin the climb, with another 2.5-5 secs to get the full climb capability as the engines come up to power.

Based on where they seem to have hit, they seem to have been ~100ft low.
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:09
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder what the FMA said? I wonder if they had RAD ALT issues?
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Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:16
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B-HKD
The 300ft displaced thresholds are part of the new FAA mandated "Runway End Safety Area (RESA)"
How ironic if the outages were a contributary factor in the crash..
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