Yemenia A-310 accident 2009 report
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Thank you messieur Agnostique75 for your "learned" and coincise legal account of the material case.
It is thoroughly refreshing in these incident/accident cases to gain a Barrister's vision in combing the legal and diplomatic rationale of the affair.
It is thoroughly refreshing in these incident/accident cases to gain a Barrister's vision in combing the legal and diplomatic rationale of the affair.
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Thank you indeed, Agnostique, it does clear things up. It appears, French Law in this regard is similar to that of Russia, where any death other than from natural causes is grounds for criminal charges.
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Agnostique, thank you for the explanation of the French system and what it is trying to accomplish here.
However, does this not amount to extra-territorial application of French law?
Correct me if I am wrong but it was a non-French company, under a non-French operating certificate, not in French territory or possessions, not operating to/from France, and the crew were non-French citizens. How can the company or crew be expected to be subjected to French law?
(I mention the crew simply to look for possible connections to France. I realize it is only the company being investigated here)
Conceivably the company should be held responsible here. If (and this is hypothetical) they did not adequately maintain the aircraft, train the crew, or set up sensible SOPs, etc, they should be blamed and/or held liable in some sense. But how can French law be used?
However, does this not amount to extra-territorial application of French law?
Correct me if I am wrong but it was a non-French company, under a non-French operating certificate, not in French territory or possessions, not operating to/from France, and the crew were non-French citizens. How can the company or crew be expected to be subjected to French law?
(I mention the crew simply to look for possible connections to France. I realize it is only the company being investigated here)
Conceivably the company should be held responsible here. If (and this is hypothetical) they did not adequately maintain the aircraft, train the crew, or set up sensible SOPs, etc, they should be blamed and/or held liable in some sense. But how can French law be used?
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not in French territory or possessions
How can the company or crew be expected to be subjected to French law?
Ref Wikipedia
Mayotte is French since 1841 (purchase of the island), the rest of the Comoros is a mere protectorate since 1886, the result of the referendum is interpreted island by island. In addition, the constitution does not give independence without the consent of the population. Mahoran consultation was negative, in contrast to other islands, Mayotte will remain in the status quo ante. Mayotte is French since 1841, it could be maintained French.
This difference of opinion remains from a recurring topic between the two States diplomatic tensions.
This difference of opinion remains from a recurring topic between the two States diplomatic tensions.
JCJ...sorry but i disagree.
This accident didnt happen at Mayotte (wich in fact its a French Department), but at Comores Moroni international airport, wich got their independence from France at July 1975, and since then its a total independent & sovereign archipelago island nation, or if you wish an african/indian ocean country.
Cheers.
This accident didnt happen at Mayotte (wich in fact its a French Department), but at Comores Moroni international airport, wich got their independence from France at July 1975, and since then its a total independent & sovereign archipelago island nation, or if you wish an african/indian ocean country.
Cheers.
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YRP "The flight did not operate to/from France).correction: The flight originated from Paris via Sanaa with an aircraft change.Most of the passengers originated from France.Some were French nationals.
Janetflight -correction: Mayote is a subset of the Comores union in any case with Moroni where the accident took place its capital city. France still has diplomatic if not political interests.I stand corrected.By law the investigation should be conducted by the Comorean authorities but due to inadequate organization they can obtain assistance from a foreign state especially since the aircraft concerned was Airbus-French make and the very close political and diplomatic ties between these two nations historically.For a long time The Comores was like a Department in France and Comorian nationals have special access to France.
Janetflight -correction: Mayote is a subset of the Comores union in any case with Moroni where the accident took place its capital city. France still has diplomatic if not political interests.I stand corrected.By law the investigation should be conducted by the Comorean authorities but due to inadequate organization they can obtain assistance from a foreign state especially since the aircraft concerned was Airbus-French make and the very close political and diplomatic ties between these two nations historically.For a long time The Comores was like a Department in France and Comorian nationals have special access to France.
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Competence of the French Courts
Allow me first to say that I have no stake, directly or indirectly, in this case. Many interesting questions have been raised regarding flight Yemenia 626.
Most victims were French -holders of dual French/Comorian nationality, French citizens of Comorian ascent and Comorian citizens residing in France -. Furthermore, Flight 626 (Yemen/Comoros) was a connecting flight of Yemenia. Most of the passengers originated from Paris, where they had boarded Yemenia Flight 749, operating an Airbus A330-200. Following a stop in Marseille, Flight 749 arrived at Sana'a International Airport in Sana'a, Yemen, where passengers transferred to Yemenia Flight 626 bound for Moroni, Comoros.
As such, the tickets of most of the victims were either a “Paris/Morini” or a “Marseille/Moroni”, delivered by Yemenia, in France. I will spare you the excruciating details dealing with Yemenia’s terms of provision of service, but the French justice applies the simple argument that Yemenia is directly or indirectly involved in the death of French citizens and residents. Hence the criminal nature of Yemenia’s indictement and the de-facto competence of the French courts.
The decision to legally challenge Yemenia in France is obviously a call of judgement made by the French justice, likely influenced by several other factors:
- While it’s competence appears obvious, the Comorian judicial system does not operate to acceptable western standards;
- The somewhat “complicated” relations between Comoro and France -namely several french-sponsored "coup" attempts- creates a situation in which French nationals could be at a disadvantage in Comorian courts;
- The same reasoning applies to the Yemeni justice, to which Yemenia’s TOPOS would probably refer;
- The near total lack of technical cooperation between Yemen and Comoro, observed during the safety investigation, is likely to continue at the judicial level. Understandably, Yemen’s stance appears to be very protective of Yemenia’s interests;
- The very nature of Yemenia’s activities makes it possible for the French authorities to exercise some degree of leverage, nationaly and within the Shengen area, encouraging Yemenia’s representation in court.
In the light of those elements, the French authorities decided that justice for the victims and the survivor would best be served by the French courts. That decision could have been different if the crash had happened , for instance, in Belgium…
For those of you interested in the details of the exchanges between Yemeni, Comorian and French authorities during the safety investigation, you can consult the key elements here, mostly in English. They are a vivid reflection of the rather uncooperative spirit that presided during the enquiry.
Most victims were French -holders of dual French/Comorian nationality, French citizens of Comorian ascent and Comorian citizens residing in France -. Furthermore, Flight 626 (Yemen/Comoros) was a connecting flight of Yemenia. Most of the passengers originated from Paris, where they had boarded Yemenia Flight 749, operating an Airbus A330-200. Following a stop in Marseille, Flight 749 arrived at Sana'a International Airport in Sana'a, Yemen, where passengers transferred to Yemenia Flight 626 bound for Moroni, Comoros.
As such, the tickets of most of the victims were either a “Paris/Morini” or a “Marseille/Moroni”, delivered by Yemenia, in France. I will spare you the excruciating details dealing with Yemenia’s terms of provision of service, but the French justice applies the simple argument that Yemenia is directly or indirectly involved in the death of French citizens and residents. Hence the criminal nature of Yemenia’s indictement and the de-facto competence of the French courts.
The decision to legally challenge Yemenia in France is obviously a call of judgement made by the French justice, likely influenced by several other factors:
- While it’s competence appears obvious, the Comorian judicial system does not operate to acceptable western standards;
- The somewhat “complicated” relations between Comoro and France -namely several french-sponsored "coup" attempts- creates a situation in which French nationals could be at a disadvantage in Comorian courts;
- The same reasoning applies to the Yemeni justice, to which Yemenia’s TOPOS would probably refer;
- The near total lack of technical cooperation between Yemen and Comoro, observed during the safety investigation, is likely to continue at the judicial level. Understandably, Yemen’s stance appears to be very protective of Yemenia’s interests;
- The very nature of Yemenia’s activities makes it possible for the French authorities to exercise some degree of leverage, nationaly and within the Shengen area, encouraging Yemenia’s representation in court.
In the light of those elements, the French authorities decided that justice for the victims and the survivor would best be served by the French courts. That decision could have been different if the crash had happened , for instance, in Belgium…
For those of you interested in the details of the exchanges between Yemeni, Comorian and French authorities during the safety investigation, you can consult the key elements here, mostly in English. They are a vivid reflection of the rather uncooperative spirit that presided during the enquiry.
Last edited by Agnostique75; 5th Feb 2014 at 11:48.
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Okay, fair enough, if the airline sold the tickets in France and it was a continuing journey, they could be expected to be held to French law with respect to providing airworthy aircraft / crews for the full journey.
Thanks for the information Ag75.
Jcjeant, based on reading wikipedia, Mayotte is separate from the rest of the Comoros. The text you quote (from a google translation of the french language wikipedia page) about the rest of Comoros being a protectorate is the historical perspective as far as I can tell. It is misleading to use that text to discuss its current status.
Thanks for the information Ag75.
Jcjeant, based on reading wikipedia, Mayotte is separate from the rest of the Comoros. The text you quote (from a google translation of the french language wikipedia page) about the rest of Comoros being a protectorate is the historical perspective as far as I can tell. It is misleading to use that text to discuss its current status.
Thread Starter
A Yemenia A330 has been seized by bailiffs at CDG due to a "financial dispute between the owner and the operator".
Un avion de la Yemenia interdit de décollage ŕ Roissy - BFMTV.com
Un avion de la Yemenia interdit de décollage ŕ Roissy - BFMTV.com
