Incident at Heathrow
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Thailand
Age: 75
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re the comment that unlatched cowls would be difficult to see - If my memory serves me correctly the Fan Cowls have a sprung plunger at the front to hold the cowls visibly open if not latched.....
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heathrow Incident: link well trained - well paid Crew vs saving lives.
A "serious" flight incident of this type can have totally different outcomes: the final results (including passengers perception of events, trauma, etc) can be completely different depending on the critical skills of both Pilots but also depending on the passenger handling and evacuation skills of Cabin Crew.
Insufficient/inappropriate pilot skills can clearly have a massive impact on serious incidents outcomes (as we have seen many times), at the same time the evacuation part is also critical as once the plane stops you have to save those lives quickly and the task is not easy under real pressure and panic.
I call ithis incident "serious" as it seems this was a double engine problem rather than just one engine being shut down, which would be a totally different type of incident.
The handling of this serious incident is a clear reminder for the Airline Industry and all passengers that you definitely pay for what you get, a reminder for all those involved that a motivated, engaged, decently paid and well trained valued workforce will always perform better than those underpaid, undervalued, overworked, not engaged etc.
Luck always plays a very important role but a well paid, well trained, well engaged Flight Crew and Cabin Crew can clearly save lives. I have no doubts on this aspect.
Well done to BA again!
Insufficient/inappropriate pilot skills can clearly have a massive impact on serious incidents outcomes (as we have seen many times), at the same time the evacuation part is also critical as once the plane stops you have to save those lives quickly and the task is not easy under real pressure and panic.
I call ithis incident "serious" as it seems this was a double engine problem rather than just one engine being shut down, which would be a totally different type of incident.
The handling of this serious incident is a clear reminder for the Airline Industry and all passengers that you definitely pay for what you get, a reminder for all those involved that a motivated, engaged, decently paid and well trained valued workforce will always perform better than those underpaid, undervalued, overworked, not engaged etc.
Luck always plays a very important role but a well paid, well trained, well engaged Flight Crew and Cabin Crew can clearly save lives. I have no doubts on this aspect.
Well done to BA again!
From a 2009 FAA "Information to Operators":
It's not clear why the A319-132 is specifically nominated rather than all the IAE-engined single-aisle models (the BA aircraft is an A319-131).
The NTSB were less specific when they made a number of Safety Recommendations in 2008, citing 15 fan cowl separation events since 1992 across the Airbus SA family.
Recommended Action: Air Carriers who operate Airbus single isle [sic] A319-132 and Bombardier CL-600-2B19 model airplanes are recommended to develop a training program for maintenance personnel and flightcrews on inspection procedures to verify that the engine-fan’s cowl to be latched. It is also recommended to revise their procedures to require maintenance personnel to inform flightcrews when engine-fan cowls have been opened before flight.
The NTSB were less specific when they made a number of Safety Recommendations in 2008, citing 15 fan cowl separation events since 1992 across the Airbus SA family.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Farnham
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft track
Interesting viewing the track of the aircraft and the other available options the crew had to shorten the experience and avoid single engine flight over the capital. Standsted, Luton or military runway. Considering both engines appear effected!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: CarrotLand
Posts: 701
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fire exstinguisher could blew one of the engine's cowls... because to use the fire exstinguisher, you need to cut all connections (electrical, fuel, hyd, bleed) from the engines before dishcharging
That means, no way they could have done that on both engines
That means, no way they could have done that on both engines
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The flight crew's handling of the incident certainly seems adequate, but what's with this blind and automatic praise of BA? If the fan cowl latches were not secured — and that is a big if at this point — is that also what you pay for when you fly BA?
It's much too early for both praise and criticism.
It's much too early for both praise and criticism.
Last edited by Rick Studder; 24th May 2013 at 10:54.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess if they call a Mayday then LHR will clear all traffic and make both runways available.
Also someone suggested that if all emergency crews are responding to 27R then there is no cover for 27L and that may also have been a reason.
Also someone suggested that if all emergency crews are responding to 27R then there is no cover for 27L and that may also have been a reason.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given the reported time elapsed after takeoff and altitude when passengers
noticed problems, it makes a birdstrike far less likely because at this time of
year geese (it would need to be that size to create the kind of problems) are v
unlikely to be moving about at the height and in the formation needed to damage
both engines. It is just possible, but if so it's really a very freak
event.
Last edited by STN Ramp Rat; 24th May 2013 at 11:00.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: EGSS
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fire exstinguisher could blew one of the engine's cowls... because to use the fire exstinguisher, you need to cut all connections (electrical, fuel, hyd, bleed) from the engines before dishcharging
That means, no way they could have done that on both engines
That means, no way they could have done that on both engines
Don't think it would ever get certified in the first place if that happened
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The handling of this serious incident is a clear reminder for the Airline Industry and all passengers that you definitely pay for what you get, a reminder for all those involved that a motivated, engaged, decently paid and well trained valued workforce will always perform better than those underpaid, undervalued, overworked, not engaged etc.
Luck always plays a very important role but a well paid, well trained, well engaged Flight Crew and Cabin Crew can clearly save lives. I have no doubts on this aspect.
Well done to BA again!
Luck always plays a very important role but a well paid, well trained, well engaged Flight Crew and Cabin Crew can clearly save lives. I have no doubts on this aspect.
Well done to BA again!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Deep South, UK
Age: 69
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Latches
Yes - this is well known on Airbus aircraft - many incidents of losing cowlings in flight - some with dramatic consequences (damage to pax windows and leading edges of horizontal stabilizer) - one of the original 'fixes' was to paint the latches day-glow red to make them more obvious - but this still required you to get on your knees to check as the cowls look closed though their own weight.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Belfast
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A major bird strike at Rome for Ryanair a while back and the crew got it down safely dont know what you are on about ILS272LEFT
More detail has emerged about what the Ryanair Boeing 737-800 crew faced following a multiple birdstrike on short final approach to Rome Ciampino airport on 10 November.
According to sources close to the investigation, when the crew sighted a huge flock of starlings ahead they initiated a go-around, but the birds rose into the flightpath and the aircraft suffered a considerable loss of power on both engines.
The crew were flying the aircraft manually when, passing about 200ft (60m), the starlings - an estimated 1,000 in number - "engulfed" the aeroplane, and the fan speed on the engines dropped from its normal approach setting of about 65% to 40%, and moving the power levers produced no result. Within 30s of the pilots' first sighting of the birds the aircraft had made a hard landing and come to a halt on the runway.
Ryanair congratulated the pilots and cabin crew of the aircraft in a 10 December ceremony at its Frankfurt Hahn base in Germany.
The carrier's safety director Michael Horgan says: "To bring the aircraft to a safe landing following a major loss of power on both engines required a level of composure and skill that is a credit to both Capt Frederic Colson and first officer Alexander Vet and underscores the exceptional flying standards that have always been the hallmark of Ryanair's safety and training operations."
The handling of this serious incident is a clear reminder for the Airline Industry and all passengers that you definitely pay for what you get, a reminder for all those involved that a motivated, engaged, decently paid and well trained valued workforce will always perform better than those underpaid, undervalued, overworked, not engaged etc.
According to sources close to the investigation, when the crew sighted a huge flock of starlings ahead they initiated a go-around, but the birds rose into the flightpath and the aircraft suffered a considerable loss of power on both engines.
The crew were flying the aircraft manually when, passing about 200ft (60m), the starlings - an estimated 1,000 in number - "engulfed" the aeroplane, and the fan speed on the engines dropped from its normal approach setting of about 65% to 40%, and moving the power levers produced no result. Within 30s of the pilots' first sighting of the birds the aircraft had made a hard landing and come to a halt on the runway.
Ryanair congratulated the pilots and cabin crew of the aircraft in a 10 December ceremony at its Frankfurt Hahn base in Germany.
The carrier's safety director Michael Horgan says: "To bring the aircraft to a safe landing following a major loss of power on both engines required a level of composure and skill that is a credit to both Capt Frederic Colson and first officer Alexander Vet and underscores the exceptional flying standards that have always been the hallmark of Ryanair's safety and training operations."