Incident at Heathrow
Flap 5
I believe you may be underestimating the workload with a diversion especially if one or both engines are giving cause for concern. The quickest option may be to return to base even if that isn't, strictly in terms of distance, the nearest option. The Boeing QRH (yes I know this is an Airbus) gives exactly that guidance.
Essentially, always look at the big picture and manage the situation accordingly. There may be competing elements eg a nearer unfamiliar diversion compared to a slightly further familiar one. Im NOT speculating regarding this particular incident though.
Of course, with the benefit of hindsight then one may sometimes realise another course of action may have been better and if that's what the TRE says in the sim debrief it must be true!
I believe you may be underestimating the workload with a diversion especially if one or both engines are giving cause for concern. The quickest option may be to return to base even if that isn't, strictly in terms of distance, the nearest option. The Boeing QRH (yes I know this is an Airbus) gives exactly that guidance.
Essentially, always look at the big picture and manage the situation accordingly. There may be competing elements eg a nearer unfamiliar diversion compared to a slightly further familiar one. Im NOT speculating regarding this particular incident though.
Of course, with the benefit of hindsight then one may sometimes realise another course of action may have been better and if that's what the TRE says in the sim debrief it must be true!
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I don't think you would be thinking about other crews with perfectly serviceable aircraft having to reach into their bags to get out stanstead plates in this situation. Particularly when these crews would also have time to thoroughly brief the diversion.
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My very strong hunch is this aircraft did not suffer any birdstrikes at all. you just have to look at the picture from the AirTran 320 that lost it's engine cowl, and compare it to todays BA. Same same.
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Walnut - I don't think anyone has suggested a downwind landing on 04 at STN.
That would have been a bad option. Though not as bad as an upwind landing on Clapham.
Thankfully the crew were able to pull off the best option and landed on a runway with ATC and full fire cover, for which major congratulations.
That would have been a bad option. Though not as bad as an upwind landing on Clapham.
Thankfully the crew were able to pull off the best option and landed on a runway with ATC and full fire cover, for which major congratulations.
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Imagine the loss of life had the aircraft lost all thrust and crashed in the middle of London as opposed to a green field near Stansted. I would think many questions would be asked of a decision to return to Heathrow.
Todays example does not necessarily apply as we do not know the exact details.
Safe outcome today but tomorrow....
Todays example does not necessarily apply as we do not know the exact details.
Safe outcome today but tomorrow....
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Birdstike my a-s
Forget the birds!
If it happened 8-9 minutes after t/o, the a/c should have just reached FL100 and started acceleration. London TMA ATC procedures keep you lower than normal elsewhere.
Can't imagine birdstrikes that can cause that kind of damage at 10000'.
Most likely the cowl latch scenario.
IMHO.
If it happened 8-9 minutes after t/o, the a/c should have just reached FL100 and started acceleration. London TMA ATC procedures keep you lower than normal elsewhere.
Can't imagine birdstrikes that can cause that kind of damage at 10000'.
Most likely the cowl latch scenario.
IMHO.
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The crew would not need to know the Stansted ILS frequency. They could just enter EGSS and the runway in use as the alternate destination, accept radar vectors to the ILS, use the autopilot (with the rudder trimmed correctly on the A319) and fly the approach and landing. The database knows the ILS frequency and, if necessary, ATC knows it anyway.
We can then steer well clear. At the airline in question today, which I might even fly for, we tend, maybe rather unusually, to brief for an approach. Such a brief requires preparation, interaction and check of understanding. Not just select it in the box and watch the aircraft fly it 
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by Walnut
My very strong hunch is this a/c suffered multiple bird strikes. No 1 was destroyed, No 2 was on fire but producing thrust, the ecam will tell you to shut down the engine on fire, fortunately the crew sat on their hands and kept it going. These crew deserve a medal, as a pilot in such a situation you head for the nearest airport, flying over a built up area is not even a consideration.
The guys talking about STN are talking tosh, it would have involved a downwind landing on R/w 05, wet, with a crippled a/c, I believe they had a brake fire so clearly some some of the systems were also u/s (brakes?), maybe slow flap extention.
The guys talking about STN are talking tosh, it would have involved a downwind landing on R/w 05, wet, with a crippled a/c, I believe they had a brake fire so clearly some some of the systems were also u/s (brakes?), maybe slow flap extention.
24 mins airborne time and flying over one of the worlds most populated cities...
with LTN or STN very close.
with LTN or STN very close.
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TAM Cowl Detachement
Not an aviation professional, but frequent flyer. Interested in what professionals make of this video. TAM A320, in Brazil May 2012 - plane was newly delivered, I believe. Obviously, if something similar did happen today with the BA A319 it was after rotation and well into the climb.
Video: Passenger Captures Engine Cover Shattering During Takeoff at NYCAviation
Video: Passenger Captures Engine Cover Shattering During Takeoff at NYCAviation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walnut
My very strong hunch is this a/c suffered multiple bird strikes. No 1 was destroyed, No 2 was on fire but producing thrust, the ecam will tell you to shut down the engine on fire, fortunately the crew sat on their hands and kept it going. These crew deserve a medal, as a pilot in such a situation you head for the nearest airport, flying over a built up area is not even a consideration.
The guys talking about STN are talking tosh, it would have involved a downwind landing on R/w 05, wet, with a crippled a/c, I believe they had a brake fire so clearly some some of the systems were also u/s (brakes?), maybe slow flap extention.
- marks out of 10?
Originally Posted by Walnut
My very strong hunch is this a/c suffered multiple bird strikes. No 1 was destroyed, No 2 was on fire but producing thrust, the ecam will tell you to shut down the engine on fire, fortunately the crew sat on their hands and kept it going. These crew deserve a medal, as a pilot in such a situation you head for the nearest airport, flying over a built up area is not even a consideration.
The guys talking about STN are talking tosh, it would have involved a downwind landing on R/w 05, wet, with a crippled a/c, I believe they had a brake fire so clearly some some of the systems were also u/s (brakes?), maybe slow flap extention.
- marks out of 10?
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I've heard some twaddle in my time and it is here in buckets on this thread.
Can we all just say well done to the flight crew and cabin crew and await the outcome of the AAIB report?
Can we all just say well done to the flight crew and cabin crew and await the outcome of the AAIB report?
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Walnut
There may be some things I can agree with in your post. One that I definitely can agree with is the suggestion that ECAM will try to kill you in situations apparently similar to this one!!!
The presence of ECAM does little to reduce the amount of interpretation required. Sometimes it dramatically INCREASES it!!
There may be some things I can agree with in your post. One that I definitely can agree with is the suggestion that ECAM will try to kill you in situations apparently similar to this one!!!
The presence of ECAM does little to reduce the amount of interpretation required. Sometimes it dramatically INCREASES it!!
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gcal
I've heard some twaddle in my time and it is here in buckets on this thread.
Can we all just say well done to the flight crew and cabin crew and await the outcome of the AAIB report?
Can we all just say well done to the flight crew and cabin crew and await the outcome of the AAIB report?
Well done to the flight crew for getting the aircraft back on ground in one piece. As for the preflight inspection... Properly done and this thread would not be here. That is my opinion. And the video on previous page supports this.
I don't think BA will be handing out any medals for this flight, even if the local news says BA is blaming this on a technical failure.
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Guys,..debris trail can be taken into consideration..so don't shoot down guys who point this out.
Maybe, just take it into consideration,if you can, should it happen to you!
Also,..we have come to expect coverups from some Asian carriers..lets hope our flag carrier will quickly explain.....leaving us in no doubt,..the truth surely being known by now,as conjecture runs rife!
Maybe, just take it into consideration,if you can, should it happen to you!
Also,..we have come to expect coverups from some Asian carriers..lets hope our flag carrier will quickly explain.....leaving us in no doubt,..the truth surely being known by now,as conjecture runs rife!
Last edited by Yaw String; 24th May 2013 at 16:13.
As for the preflight inspection... Properly done and this thread would not be here.
Not an aviation professional, but frequent flyer. Interested in what professionals make of this video. TAM A320, in Brazil May 2012 - plane was newly delivered, I believe.
CFM engined on this occasion.
I loved the quote from the original article:
This is what happens when you use an electronic device during takeoff: The engine cover breaks off and hurls itself into the side of your plane.
Obviously, if something similar did happen today with the BA A319 it was after rotation and well into the climb.
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Please let us know which airline you fly for, or hopefully none We can then steer well clear. At the airline in question today, which I might even fly for, we tend, maybe rather unusually, to brief for an approach. Such a brief requires preparation, interaction and check of understanding. Not just select it in the box and watch the aircraft fly it
We can then steer well clear. At the airline in question today, which I might even fly for, we tend, maybe rather unusually, to brief for an approach. Such a brief requires preparation, interaction and check of understanding. Not just select it in the box and watch the aircraft fly it