avherald: Pilots fired for letting pax take pilot seat
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Somehow this incident reminds me of the one not long ago where an Air Traffic Controller's child was issuing clearances on a mayor airport. While everything was "under control" and everybody took etra precautions, it was in violation of the rules. Let's keep in mind that most of these rules have been made precisely because a situation apparently "under control" can turn into something which isn't in a moment and you don't want to increase the chances.
Long past are now the days when pilots (and to lesser extent atcos) ruled the air. Now both of us must follow a somewhat rigid set of rules leaving personal initiative on the shelf for those rare ocassions where it is direly needed. Even though this initiative may nowadays be rather untrained you will agree with me that flying is safer than in the 70s and not only due to improvements on the planes.
And before somebody mentions the magenta line, neither this case nor the one of the controlling child had anything to do with it. In any case I wouldn't have fired the pilots here but give them a final warning. First offence and such...
Long past are now the days when pilots (and to lesser extent atcos) ruled the air. Now both of us must follow a somewhat rigid set of rules leaving personal initiative on the shelf for those rare ocassions where it is direly needed. Even though this initiative may nowadays be rather untrained you will agree with me that flying is safer than in the 70s and not only due to improvements on the planes.
And before somebody mentions the magenta line, neither this case nor the one of the controlling child had anything to do with it. In any case I wouldn't have fired the pilots here but give them a final warning. First offence and such...
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As SLF I went to the cockpit many times in pre-9/11 era, including the last 30 mn of a domestic flight in the jumpseat, with landing and taxying.
Instead I was a bit surprised one week ago on a Portuguese domestic flight where a class of kids was admitted to the cockpit in groups of five. I have to say that the crew was attentive and closely watching me when reaching the toilet in the front of the cabin . I have to say also that it looked as planned earlier, as the teachers got business class bkfast and chatted with the crew , may be a reward or something like that. Does everybody know if exceptions can be made or airlines can allow such things ? Just for my curiosity, thank you.
Instead I was a bit surprised one week ago on a Portuguese domestic flight where a class of kids was admitted to the cockpit in groups of five. I have to say that the crew was attentive and closely watching me when reaching the toilet in the front of the cabin . I have to say also that it looked as planned earlier, as the teachers got business class bkfast and chatted with the crew , may be a reward or something like that. Does everybody know if exceptions can be made or airlines can allow such things ? Just for my curiosity, thank you.
Last edited by Lberto; 21st May 2013 at 17:40.
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Nowadays it seems to be normal. Pilots sleep as air-hostess turns off autopilot on Bangkok-Delhi flight - Mumbai Mirror
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Come on guys it is still fine to let kids into the cockpit and hand fly a commercial plane. Heard of P2F? Sure they pay dearly for it now but what is the difference?
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Africa
I was born and grew up in Africa (most of the time). As I recall kids were rare on commercial flights to and from Africa in the seventies and early eighties. I was (nearly) always invited to visit the cockpit and boy did the pilots impress me 
I was never offered the front seat though. Enjoyed jump seats during landings and soaked up the experience of all the new automation (all explained to me while coming in) when the Airbus was introduced...
When I grew older, and on non-commercial flights I was often offered the front seat, and the controls, with an experienced pilot next to me. At that point I knew I wanted to be a pilot. It never happened.
When I moved back to Europe I worked for some years as a courier, practically living on airplanes or airports. I noticed the change in attitude towards pilots. If you're a captain, you should be treated as a captain, not a bus driver.
Now back on topic: I wouldn't dream of touching anything in he cockpit even if I would've been offered the front seat as a kid. Right now I wouldn't trust my kids in a front seat for a second. Kids these days have a tendency to push a button and then ask what it actually does. Times have changed, we (the kids) are not used to great consequences from pushing buttons (or rotating knobs for that matter). Blame Apple Ignorance is not bliss....
I was never offered the front seat though. Enjoyed jump seats during landings and soaked up the experience of all the new automation (all explained to me while coming in) when the Airbus was introduced...When I grew older, and on non-commercial flights I was often offered the front seat, and the controls, with an experienced pilot next to me. At that point I knew I wanted to be a pilot. It never happened.
When I moved back to Europe I worked for some years as a courier, practically living on airplanes or airports. I noticed the change in attitude towards pilots. If you're a captain, you should be treated as a captain, not a bus driver.
Now back on topic: I wouldn't dream of touching anything in he cockpit even if I would've been offered the front seat as a kid. Right now I wouldn't trust my kids in a front seat for a second. Kids these days have a tendency to push a button and then ask what it actually does. Times have changed, we (the kids) are not used to great consequences from pushing buttons (or rotating knobs for that matter). Blame Apple
Ignorance is not bliss....
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there's a pattern here: local celebrity/singer, visits cockpit during cruise, sits in RH seat, pictures taken, published....
this time in, Vietnam, both pilot's licences were suspended for 1 month, cockpit AND cabin crew fined (300$, 150$, and 35$).
Saigoneer | Exploring Saigon and Beyond - Vietnamese Actress Gets Airline Crew into Hot Water
moral: celebrity cockpit visits during cruise, with pictures taken, in these times of facebook etc, is a surefire way to self-sabotage a career.
this time in, Vietnam, both pilot's licences were suspended for 1 month, cockpit AND cabin crew fined (300$, 150$, and 35$).
Saigoneer | Exploring Saigon and Beyond - Vietnamese Actress Gets Airline Crew into Hot Water
moral: celebrity cockpit visits during cruise, with pictures taken, in these times of facebook etc, is a surefire way to self-sabotage a career.
Last edited by deptrai; 7th Jun 2013 at 09:22.
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Would you settle for say a surgeon to invite a lunchtime acquaintance to stand in and watch as he performs surgery on you? There is no negative safety impact (med students regularly observe operations), a lot of people are fascinated by medicine, the experience could inspire someone to be a doctor.
Safety aside, it's just plainly not professional.
Safety aside, it's just plainly not professional.
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Bull.
Nothing unprofessional about inviting passengers on the flightdeck.
I still do it all the time by the way, on a large Boeing.
I am the Captain, I do decide who enters and who does not. Full stop.
No picture taking and no talking during critical phases of flight and obciously no seating on either pilot seat inflight.
Nothing unprofessional about inviting passengers on the flightdeck.
I still do it all the time by the way, on a large Boeing.
I am the Captain, I do decide who enters and who does not. Full stop.
No picture taking and no talking during critical phases of flight and obciously no seating on either pilot seat inflight.
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despegue,
just out of curiosity, what criteria do you use to decide who gets invited and who does not? Have you ever had a situation where you invited say kid A, and then kid B was upset because he didn't get invited? How would you handle that?
just out of curiosity, what criteria do you use to decide who gets invited and who does not? Have you ever had a situation where you invited say kid A, and then kid B was upset because he didn't get invited? How would you handle that?
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I guess the Paper Tiger does exist. Above his Chief Pilot and D/O are we
?
Can some one explain why it's not unprofessional to follow SOPs and invite unauthorized individuals into off limit places?
?Can some one explain why it's not unprofessional to follow SOPs and invite unauthorized individuals into off limit places?
had the Chief Pilots daughter on the jump just recently.
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I'm wondering if we should have a section on PPRUNE called "the good old days"? There would be one thread in it, with one post only:
"the good old days eh it was great back then everything in aviation is sh*t today bloody kids eh who do they think they are following the magenta line back in my day I did x, y or z and it was fine what was the harm paying for type ratings what next send them all back bring back hanging bloody health and safety political correctness gone mad"
We could save ourselves a lot of time and effort.
"the good old days eh it was great back then everything in aviation is sh*t today bloody kids eh who do they think they are following the magenta line back in my day I did x, y or z and it was fine what was the harm paying for type ratings what next send them all back bring back hanging bloody health and safety political correctness gone mad"
We could save ourselves a lot of time and effort.
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Interjection from SLF here.
I was invited to the flight deck a couple of times on UK domestic flights as the pilot had a keen interest in astronomy, knew where I worked, and thought that (a) I could identify some celestial object he couldn't and (b) would like to see the night sky from FL350. Brief pleasant interludes, and I'm quite sure they'd have been briefer had something demanded his attention.
I was invited to the flight deck a couple of times on UK domestic flights as the pilot had a keen interest in astronomy, knew where I worked, and thought that (a) I could identify some celestial object he couldn't and (b) would like to see the night sky from FL350. Brief pleasant interludes, and I'm quite sure they'd have been briefer had something demanded his attention.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by despegue
Because it is not forbidden in my company
Do we know?
As 'Al Murdoch' says at #54
"We could save ourselves a lot of time and effort."
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Hello deptrai," There's a pattern here... "
Those 2 incidents occurred just 17 days apart, in 2 different continents :
- in VN, it was on April 11, posted May 12 on the South East Asia PPrune forum ! The crew and the pilots will fly again soon and the pax offered to pay the 350 $ penalty for the captain, 250 for the FO, and some peanuts for the pursuer.
- in Brazil, it was April 28, posted May 15 on this forum. The crew and pilots are terminated. They should have read the SEAsia forum before having this kind of fun.
Actually, was it fun ? The VN pilots may have fallen for the seductive female star pax even though she looks so so, but why this male singer... ?!
Those 2 incidents occurred just 17 days apart, in 2 different continents :
- in VN, it was on April 11, posted May 12 on the South East Asia PPrune forum ! The crew and the pilots will fly again soon and the pax offered to pay the 350 $ penalty for the captain, 250 for the FO, and some peanuts for the pursuer.
- in Brazil, it was April 28, posted May 15 on this forum. The crew and pilots are terminated. They should have read the SEAsia forum before having this kind of fun.
Actually, was it fun ? The VN pilots may have fallen for the seductive female star pax even though she looks so so, but why this male singer... ?!
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I should have read the local SEasia forum as well 
a bit ironic that I would have overlooked that, since I'm sitting here about 5nm straight ahead of the threshold of rwy 25 in Saigon, hearing the airplanes coming in for landing over my head. Probably I'm mentally in Europe, on holiday, already
a bit ironic that I would have overlooked that, since I'm sitting here about 5nm straight ahead of the threshold of rwy 25 in Saigon, hearing the airplanes coming in for landing over my head. Probably I'm mentally in Europe, on holiday, already
Last edited by deptrai; 16th Jun 2013 at 14:05.
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Interesting this as those who have allowed non approved persons into the flight deck in UK airspace are breaking the UK law & if caught could find themselves in front of a judge along with a custodial sentence.
