Toxic Cabin Air
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Toxic Cabin Air
Seems an Australian court has found toxic cabin air to be the cause of repiratory illness.
Will this start further investigations and acknowledgements by the aviation industry??
'Toxic' cabin air: legal victory for sick flight attendant - Telegraph
Will this start further investigations and acknowledgements by the aviation industry??
'Toxic' cabin air: legal victory for sick flight attendant - Telegraph
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First win = Legal precedent
Stilton,
The fume event was in 1992, the legal proceedings have been going on for 10 years and she has made it clear that the case was NOT run for compensation but to:
* Set a legal precedent.
* Help the 25% of other aircrew who have been similarly affected.
The fume event was in 1992, the legal proceedings have been going on for 10 years and she has made it clear that the case was NOT run for compensation but to:
* Set a legal precedent.
* Help the 25% of other aircrew who have been similarly affected.
I understand DB and good for her.
I hope this case will 'legitimise' the problem with regulators and force them to take action.
The amount awarded should have been greater however, both for the plaintiff's benefit and to further increase the attention required to fix this problem.
I hope this case will 'legitimise' the problem with regulators and force them to take action.
The amount awarded should have been greater however, both for the plaintiff's benefit and to further increase the attention required to fix this problem.
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No evidence...
Stilton,
The airlines and regulators are still saying 'there is no evidence' - even after a High Court case and all of the overwhelming evidence - so it's not over yet!
It's called denial - a bit like the African river - The Nile.
As you so rightly say, all anybody wants are the known solutions of:
- Just in case?
The airlines and regulators are still saying 'there is no evidence' - even after a High Court case and all of the overwhelming evidence - so it's not over yet!
It's called denial - a bit like the African river - The Nile.
As you so rightly say, all anybody wants are the known solutions of:
- Filtered bleed air - Just like cigarettes.
- Fit toxic air detectors - not aircrew's noses!
- Reformulate the oils - take out the nerve agents.
- Just in case?
Occupational Disease and Workers Compensation
This court ruling may be of use in obtaining a full or partial disability pension for occupational disease (even if the onset occurs after employment has ended) from the governing Workers Compensation Board (or whatever the body in your area is called).
In some boards, extra assessments against employers incurring higher payouts can be levied
While many courts have time limitations for civil suits, compensation boards usually do not. So if you can't sue, go to your compensation board, preferably in a group with the other affectees and a smart advocate.
Many boards are a little bit disfunctional. In which case you will find that there are a number of advocates who know how to make a claim stick.
In some boards, extra assessments against employers incurring higher payouts can be levied
While many courts have time limitations for civil suits, compensation boards usually do not. So if you can't sue, go to your compensation board, preferably in a group with the other affectees and a smart advocate.
Many boards are a little bit disfunctional. In which case you will find that there are a number of advocates who know how to make a claim stick.
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Toxic Cabin Air Victory
The Bae 146 Alf engine (Helicopter designed powerplant) was modified to power Bae 146 and incorporated customer bleed air. Their Carbon friction bearing seals can wear and pressure can drop across seals at the top of climb of even good seals allowing some oil fume by pass to a/con system.
Most fixed wing A/C have power plants with Labyrinth bearing seals ( no contacting parts ) and give nil problems and work by differential pressure.
APU's have carbon friction bearings seals and when worn can contaminate bleed air ducts upstream to engine isolation valves and down stream a/con system.
Ansett introduced monitoring units in the aft overhead locker and changed the engine oil from Mobil jet 11 to 294 less carcinogetic.
Monash university should release a report end 2010 from a committee formed 18 months ago as advertised in The Australian which i am awaiting a reply.
I believe I have a solution and been in contact with Boeing, The French say it's no bigger deal than theater odours and not a problem.
A/C cabins are a confined space and create body odours, Galley odours, lavortory odours and can suffer engine oil vapours, Straight away pillows which adsorb unwanted vapours could be placed in overhead lockers until vapour filters are fitted to various systems.
Awaiting reply's from manufactures, they showed initial interest.
Most fixed wing A/C have power plants with Labyrinth bearing seals ( no contacting parts ) and give nil problems and work by differential pressure.
APU's have carbon friction bearings seals and when worn can contaminate bleed air ducts upstream to engine isolation valves and down stream a/con system.
Ansett introduced monitoring units in the aft overhead locker and changed the engine oil from Mobil jet 11 to 294 less carcinogetic.
Monash university should release a report end 2010 from a committee formed 18 months ago as advertised in The Australian which i am awaiting a reply.
I believe I have a solution and been in contact with Boeing, The French say it's no bigger deal than theater odours and not a problem.
A/C cabins are a confined space and create body odours, Galley odours, lavortory odours and can suffer engine oil vapours, Straight away pillows which adsorb unwanted vapours could be placed in overhead lockers until vapour filters are fitted to various systems.
Awaiting reply's from manufactures, they showed initial interest.
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Cabin Air
Of course none of this could have happened with the Vickers Fun-Bus, the venerable VC10 (and no doubt many other types of the era) have separate dedicated cabin air compressors. Have we gone backwards in the intervening 40 years? I understand that these devices were heavy and power hungry but what is more important than looking after the self loading revenue stream?
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Flight International Article posted on the Aerotoxic Association website:
CABIN CONTAMINATION DAVID LEARMOUNT LONDON
Australian court upholds toxic compensation
East-West loses appeal over flight attendant damages award
A flight attendant from the former Australian regional carrier East-West Airlines whose health was damaged by toxic fumes in the cabin of a BAe 146 has had a A$138,800 ($129,000) compensation award upheld by the country's high court, against an appeal by the airline.
Joanne Turner was working for East-West when fumes entered the cabin in the descent at the end of a Sydney-Brisbane flight in 1992. She was 25 weeks pregnant and complained of a burning throat, sore eyes, headaches and persistent cough after the incident.
It has been established that the fumes that entered the cabin pressurisation system were the result of a leaking engine oil seal.
The Australian Dust and Diseases Tribunal — the national agency with the closest area of expertise to this case — awarded Turner $138,757 in damages some time ago, but East-West had appealed against that decision. Now the high court has upheld it.
Turner says: "I'm just very relieved it's finally over. I hope the fight will help other flightcrew."
Meanwhile, a University of New South Wales survey has found that about 25% of pilots who flew on the BAe 146 suffered long-term health degradation that deprived them of their pilot licences, and an Australian Senate inquiry found East-West and Ansett Airlines, by 2007, had been paid more than $2 million in 1993 by BAE Systems — British Aerospace's successor — to drop complaints about the BAe 146.
Court judgements are pending on the same subject in other Australian states and in Belgium.
Flight International 21-27 September 2010
CABIN CONTAMINATION DAVID LEARMOUNT LONDON
Australian court upholds toxic compensation
East-West loses appeal over flight attendant damages award
A flight attendant from the former Australian regional carrier East-West Airlines whose health was damaged by toxic fumes in the cabin of a BAe 146 has had a A$138,800 ($129,000) compensation award upheld by the country's high court, against an appeal by the airline.
Joanne Turner was working for East-West when fumes entered the cabin in the descent at the end of a Sydney-Brisbane flight in 1992. She was 25 weeks pregnant and complained of a burning throat, sore eyes, headaches and persistent cough after the incident.
It has been established that the fumes that entered the cabin pressurisation system were the result of a leaking engine oil seal.
The Australian Dust and Diseases Tribunal — the national agency with the closest area of expertise to this case — awarded Turner $138,757 in damages some time ago, but East-West had appealed against that decision. Now the high court has upheld it.
Turner says: "I'm just very relieved it's finally over. I hope the fight will help other flightcrew."
Meanwhile, a University of New South Wales survey has found that about 25% of pilots who flew on the BAe 146 suffered long-term health degradation that deprived them of their pilot licences, and an Australian Senate inquiry found East-West and Ansett Airlines, by 2007, had been paid more than $2 million in 1993 by BAE Systems — British Aerospace's successor — to drop complaints about the BAe 146.
Court judgements are pending on the same subject in other Australian states and in Belgium.
Flight International 21-27 September 2010
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Corporate cabin
Big corporations - especially Exxon - have a stinking record in more senses than one. This whole debacle has only continued due to corporate power. If there's continued boardroom resistance to common sense perhaps the boardroom & chief exec's offices should be fed their air supply from the same source.
It shouldn't take too much ingenuity to rig up a leaky turbofan to run the air con systems at head office.
It shouldn't take too much ingenuity to rig up a leaky turbofan to run the air con systems at head office.
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A Manufacturers reply
I recieved a reply quickly since my last post and follow up call which they thanked my interest and indicated that our new technology is not required and they have a program being created regarding particulate and volotile organic compounds (VOC) filters, which will change the game without admitting there is an issue.
Could something be created that could phase out older A/C like the demise of the B727 and their noise issue of yesterday in Australian sky's?
Preferably, a simple filter modified to undertake particulate and VOC vapours, from the,
1. Recirculation system (saves fuel and a great place to mix everthing up and redistribute to cabin outlets) Present practice incorporates a particulate filter which is changed regularly. Easy
2. Install a porous inner wall duct filter downstream of the water separators prior to cabin entry could save some older A/C if new technology superseeds them eventually. Harder to achieve due supply must not be interupted.
Our test show adsorbing/absorbing vapours puts out fires so why not have the side wall linings made of this new Gee Wiz stuff. I am a consultant by family association and medium discovered accidentally, with such a material and it is 100% recyclable.
A cynic might think there is a race to reverse engineer it or obtain it by other means.
PS. I may be too small for them to take notice with the stakes so high. I have been carefull not to name names.
Very important to write up odour events for trend monitoring and necessary action.
I have been talking to the appropiate people since 2005 and patiently waited for my last reply from an interested manufacturer as mentioned, for 12 months,(Disappointed with response, initial correspondance advised they will fund testing). hence the posts.
My team consider approaching the issue from the less obvious tasks and as a consequence just happen to purge and evacuate the Toxic Hydrocarbons.
We have more work to do, there is more than one way to skin a cat and punching the big guys on the nose is not one of them.
The front door seems closed for now.
S 48 A
Could something be created that could phase out older A/C like the demise of the B727 and their noise issue of yesterday in Australian sky's?
Preferably, a simple filter modified to undertake particulate and VOC vapours, from the,
1. Recirculation system (saves fuel and a great place to mix everthing up and redistribute to cabin outlets) Present practice incorporates a particulate filter which is changed regularly. Easy
2. Install a porous inner wall duct filter downstream of the water separators prior to cabin entry could save some older A/C if new technology superseeds them eventually. Harder to achieve due supply must not be interupted.
Our test show adsorbing/absorbing vapours puts out fires so why not have the side wall linings made of this new Gee Wiz stuff. I am a consultant by family association and medium discovered accidentally, with such a material and it is 100% recyclable.
A cynic might think there is a race to reverse engineer it or obtain it by other means.
PS. I may be too small for them to take notice with the stakes so high. I have been carefull not to name names.
Very important to write up odour events for trend monitoring and necessary action.
I have been talking to the appropiate people since 2005 and patiently waited for my last reply from an interested manufacturer as mentioned, for 12 months,(Disappointed with response, initial correspondance advised they will fund testing). hence the posts.
My team consider approaching the issue from the less obvious tasks and as a consequence just happen to purge and evacuate the Toxic Hydrocarbons.
We have more work to do, there is more than one way to skin a cat and punching the big guys on the nose is not one of them.
The front door seems closed for now.
S 48 A
Last edited by Section 48 Ace; 28th Sep 2010 at 18:48. Reason: spell check and update.
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A/C cabins are a confined space and create body odours, Galley odours, lavortory odours and can suffer engine oil vapours, Straight away pillows which adsorb unwanted vapours could be placed in overhead lockers until vapour filters are fitted to various systems.
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Phew - unhealthy cabin air is a myth....
Aircraft cabin air no more a health threat than sitting in an office | Mail Online
Perhaps the Australian cabin crew and Judge were wrong - all along.
It's a myth after all.....!
Phew - which chemicals are in those visible fumes in 1 in 2,000 flights.
Who cares?
DB
Perhaps the Australian cabin crew and Judge were wrong - all along.
It's a myth after all.....!
Phew - which chemicals are in those visible fumes in 1 in 2,000 flights.
Who cares?
DB
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Another related battle in Chicago
Keep your eyes on a lawsuit on a similar matter in Chicago, Illinois. It is by twenty passengers on an XL Airways Boeing 767 back in 2007, when a fume event at altitude seemingly liberated VOCs, with nasty results.
Boeing and others tried to get the case thrown out and back to the UK, but lost in a headline decision earlier this year in May. The case now proceeds in Chicago to damages. Watch this space.
The important issue for all here is that a single fume event is much less complex to prove in law, than prolonged exposure by flight or cabin crew to conditions, say in a 146 or 757. Something lawyers cause "causation" is the heart of the matter for these types of case.
As a matter of decency and simply doing the right thing, there has been a deliberate ducking of this issue by the industry for far too long. David Learmount and others are correct to call it the dirty little secret of the aviation industry, ably abetted by insurance companies and others who are keen to protect their capital from claims.
There will be "an Erin Brokovic" for toxic cabin air, it is just a matter of time.
Boeing and others tried to get the case thrown out and back to the UK, but lost in a headline decision earlier this year in May. The case now proceeds in Chicago to damages. Watch this space.
The important issue for all here is that a single fume event is much less complex to prove in law, than prolonged exposure by flight or cabin crew to conditions, say in a 146 or 757. Something lawyers cause "causation" is the heart of the matter for these types of case.
As a matter of decency and simply doing the right thing, there has been a deliberate ducking of this issue by the industry for far too long. David Learmount and others are correct to call it the dirty little secret of the aviation industry, ably abetted by insurance companies and others who are keen to protect their capital from claims.
There will be "an Erin Brokovic" for toxic cabin air, it is just a matter of time.
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The important issue for all here is that a single fume event is much less complex to prove in law, than prolonged exposure by flight or cabin crew to conditions,
Quite a bit different from the thread subject of Toxic (smelly) air
Of course I have no idea what the evidence is in the case you cite.
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Aerotoxic Poisoning
Boeing 767 Flight number XLA 120 Aerotoxic Poisoning
and
BBC News Player - Something in the Air
Perhaps the BBC might have to do another Panorama follow up? - 2 years after the last one.
and
BBC News Player - Something in the Air
Perhaps the BBC might have to do another Panorama follow up? - 2 years after the last one.
