Toxic Cabin Air/Aerotoxic Syndrome
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: U.K.
Age: 68
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Accident: Jetblue A320 21.1.17, fumes injure Captain, Court confirms causal link
Contaminated Air
Unfortunately the long running thread discussing this was recently moved to another section of the forum.
However there has been a very significant development in the US courts which may have far reaching effects on the industry.
Link to the case.
However there has been a very significant development in the US courts which may have far reaching effects on the industry.
Link to the case.
More details of the case Here
I’ll just have to accept that for whatever reason threads about this subject get moved to a quite obscure part of the forum. Considering that this is so important to the health of those in the industry and may well have a major effect on the profitability of airlines I can’t think of any other subject that is more appropriate for discussion in R & N. If I were a conspiracy theorist I’d think they’ve even nobbled pprune!
I’ll just have to accept that for whatever reason threads about this subject get moved to a quite obscure part of the forum. Considering that this is so important to the health of those in the industry and may well have a major effect on the profitability of airlines I can’t think of any other subject that is more appropriate for discussion in R & N. If I were a conspiracy theorist I’d think they’ve even nobbled pprune!
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ultrafine particle levels measured on board short‑haul jet aircraft
The science and recent published reports have made a compelling case.
have a look at the researchgate article
“Ultrafine particle levels measured on board short‑haul commercial passenger jet aircraft
new study out just published
“Susan Michaelis1* , Tristan Loraine2 and C. V. Howard3
Abstract Background: Airline crew members report adverse health effects during and after inhalation exposure to engine oil fumes sourced to the air supply system onboard commercial and military aircraft. Most investigations into the causal factors of their reported symptoms focus on specific chemical contaminants in the fumes. The adverse health effects reported in aircrew exposed to the aircraft air supply, bled unfiltered off the engine or Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) may be related to particulate exposures, which are widely known to effect health. While oil contaminates the aircraft air supply, some suggest that this will only occur when there is a bearing seal failure, others document that there is low level oil contamination of the air supply during normal engine operation. This brief pilot study explores whether par-ticulate exposure may be associated with the normal engine/APU and air supply operation and to therefore increase the understanding that UFP exposures may have on crew and passengers.”
have a look at the researchgate article
“Ultrafine particle levels measured on board short‑haul commercial passenger jet aircraft
new study out just published
“Susan Michaelis1* , Tristan Loraine2 and C. V. Howard3
Abstract Background: Airline crew members report adverse health effects during and after inhalation exposure to engine oil fumes sourced to the air supply system onboard commercial and military aircraft. Most investigations into the causal factors of their reported symptoms focus on specific chemical contaminants in the fumes. The adverse health effects reported in aircrew exposed to the aircraft air supply, bled unfiltered off the engine or Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) may be related to particulate exposures, which are widely known to effect health. While oil contaminates the aircraft air supply, some suggest that this will only occur when there is a bearing seal failure, others document that there is low level oil contamination of the air supply during normal engine operation. This brief pilot study explores whether par-ticulate exposure may be associated with the normal engine/APU and air supply operation and to therefore increase the understanding that UFP exposures may have on crew and passengers.”
Fume events
Finally, finally, could it be that a government might be heading towards taking the problem of toxic fumes in aircraft seriously?
The LA Times boasts an exclusive with the headline
The piece opens with
You can find the article at https://www.latimes.com/california/s...fmc_id=1980085
Yes, I know there’s a previous thread on this called Toxic Cabin Air - but for some unexplained reason it got shuffled off to Ground & Other Ops Forums - and now it’s hard to find at all. Surely this subject is of huge safety interest to everyone in the business - and it deserves a new thread in Rumours & News? (Please, lovely Mods…)
airsound
The LA Times boasts an exclusive with the headline
Congress is moving to curb toxic fumes on airplanes
The airline industry would be forced to adopt new measures to protect passengers and crew members from toxic fumes on airplanes under a bill introduced in Congress this week.
Yes, I know there’s a previous thread on this called Toxic Cabin Air - but for some unexplained reason it got shuffled off to Ground & Other Ops Forums - and now it’s hard to find at all. Surely this subject is of huge safety interest to everyone in the business - and it deserves a new thread in Rumours & News? (Please, lovely Mods…)
airsound
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Orbit
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airsound, thx for your posting.
I wasn't aware of Congress prepping a bill regarding this. Finally some recognition and progress. I am contacting the senators writing this bill because I feel it doesn't go far enough.
They can go much farther to protect airline crew than just alerting and reporting on board a flight. There needs to be a comprehensive testing program, mandated by Congress, out of reach of parties that try to keep covering this up, to establish what exactly is happening on many many flights regarding air quality on board.
Additionally it needs to be ruled an occupational disease so crews don't have to fight and go to court for years to get financial assistance.
Also Congres needs to mandate airlines to implement filters that catch those organophosphates and airplane manufactures to design new airplanes in a way that only fresh air enters the cabin, not through engines or APU, ala 787. yep that will cost money and fuel burn so you can expect a strong lobby against it. Maybe lives are more important than money ?
i lost my medical years ago due to this but wasn't aware of this issue until years later, after flying 27 years on all kinds of jets. Finally have my medical back.
I wasn't aware of Congress prepping a bill regarding this. Finally some recognition and progress. I am contacting the senators writing this bill because I feel it doesn't go far enough.
They can go much farther to protect airline crew than just alerting and reporting on board a flight. There needs to be a comprehensive testing program, mandated by Congress, out of reach of parties that try to keep covering this up, to establish what exactly is happening on many many flights regarding air quality on board.
Additionally it needs to be ruled an occupational disease so crews don't have to fight and go to court for years to get financial assistance.
Also Congres needs to mandate airlines to implement filters that catch those organophosphates and airplane manufactures to design new airplanes in a way that only fresh air enters the cabin, not through engines or APU, ala 787. yep that will cost money and fuel burn so you can expect a strong lobby against it. Maybe lives are more important than money ?
i lost my medical years ago due to this but wasn't aware of this issue until years later, after flying 27 years on all kinds of jets. Finally have my medical back.
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately money is more important than lives. Pall Aerospace makes Cabin Air Sensors g
Airbus knows theres a problem proven by science but they prefer to cover it up and doubt it as they have done with climate change. Boeing knows thats why they designed the 787 that way. Technology exists to improve CAQ.
have a look at the Andrews Myers settlement against Jetblue, which is a landmark case proving the aerotoxic syndrome.
The thing is low dose exposures do damage but there havent been long term low dose studies done.
it is so undersported and when reported hard for maintenance to find the source in light minor events.
if you see the GCARS APP where we need all to report even minor events in this global reporting system.
when they tell you its must a minor smell doesnt affect you, its a lie its toxic air which can be improved with advanced filters upstream of the bleed by PTI technologies and system changes.
Airbus knows theres a problem proven by science but they prefer to cover it up and doubt it as they have done with climate change. Boeing knows thats why they designed the 787 that way. Technology exists to improve CAQ.
have a look at the Andrews Myers settlement against Jetblue, which is a landmark case proving the aerotoxic syndrome.
The thing is low dose exposures do damage but there havent been long term low dose studies done.
it is so undersported and when reported hard for maintenance to find the source in light minor events.
if you see the GCARS APP where we need all to report even minor events in this global reporting system.
when they tell you its must a minor smell doesnt affect you, its a lie its toxic air which can be improved with advanced filters upstream of the bleed by PTI technologies and system changes.
Last edited by Manual Pitch Trim; 11th May 2022 at 13:43.
Interesting that Gulf War syndrome has been attributed to Sarin, which contains similar chemicals to those found in superheated aircraft engine oils. It has also been revealed that susceptibility to symptoms is due to genetic differences.
Link
Link
Last edited by snooky; 11th May 2022 at 12:41. Reason: Adding link
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting that Gulf War syndrome has been attributed to Sarin, which contains similar chemicals to those found in superheated aircraft engine oils. It has also been revealed that susceptibility to symptoms is due to genetic differences.
Link
Link
New blood test for contaminated air events
A dozen air accident departments globally have made over 50 recommendatuions and findings in relation to contaminated air events on aircraft in the last 15 years. Funded by numerous pilot and FA unions and the Royal Australian Air Force, a new blood test to confirm exposure to contaminated air is to be presented at the 2023 Aircraft Cabin Air Conference online 27-29 June 2023.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: U.K.
Age: 68
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cabin Air conference 27-29 June 2023 - online.
Aerotoxic Syndrome
A search of PPRuNe on 'aerotoxic' has revealed a wide miscellany of threads going back many years, but no common link.
I am therefore kicking off this new thread to draw attention to some new academic research, which may be of some importance to the 'cabin air' conference which is upcoming at the end of this month: -
http://dx.doi.org/10.1186/s12940-023-00987-8
(without comment on my behalf, other than to say that I am glad that serious academic interest is emerging now ... and I have never been aboard a 146).
I am therefore kicking off this new thread to draw attention to some new academic research, which may be of some importance to the 'cabin air' conference which is upcoming at the end of this month: -
http://dx.doi.org/10.1186/s12940-023-00987-8
(without comment on my behalf, other than to say that I am glad that serious academic interest is emerging now ... and I have never been aboard a 146).
Last edited by dogle; 11th Jun 2023 at 22:45.
Just adding this in for reference.
https://www.aircraftcabinair.com
I flew the Boeing 757 from 1997 to 2001 with the majority powered by the RB 211- 535C. I recall being subjected to cockpit fumes on a number of occasions with all instances written up in the tech log. At the time I felt I was unaffected although colleagues reported a variety of symptoms.
Sadly some lost their medicals and there were a small number of fatalities….
My latest diagnosis had given me pause for thought.
https://www.aircraftcabinair.com
I flew the Boeing 757 from 1997 to 2001 with the majority powered by the RB 211- 535C. I recall being subjected to cockpit fumes on a number of occasions with all instances written up in the tech log. At the time I felt I was unaffected although colleagues reported a variety of symptoms.
Sadly some lost their medicals and there were a small number of fatalities….
My latest diagnosis had given me pause for thought.
I'm having a break at work but cant join the Conference, so please tell us more Tristan......
What's it called, where can we get it, how's it done, how accurate is it, what does it tell us and what can we/should we do if contaminated.....?
And more importantly, do regulators and operators recognise the results and have/will they incorporate it appropriate protocols/responses to suspect fume events?
Mods - wonder if this shouldnt be merged into the Contaminated Air thread or vice versa?
What's it called, where can we get it, how's it done, how accurate is it, what does it tell us and what can we/should we do if contaminated.....?
And more importantly, do regulators and operators recognise the results and have/will they incorporate it appropriate protocols/responses to suspect fume events?
Mods - wonder if this shouldnt be merged into the Contaminated Air thread or vice versa?
Administrator
For Flipster130: This is news, and is on a topic of general interest to the Flight Crew and Flight Attendants in the industry.
Its more than just news...it could be MONUMENTAL.... and vitally important to everyone who flies, or has flown, as pax or crew - in the past 70 years....just wish we could see it.