FAA Grounds 787s
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BBC Breaking News have just confirmed that Quatar Airways have grounded their 787's too. Such a shame, went to Heathrow to watch one take off recently and it was an impressive sight 
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787's are now officially grounded by:
FAA (USA)
JAA (Japan)
EASA (Europe)
DGAC (India)
DGCA (Chili)
I'm pretty sure the ECAA (Ethiopia) and the CAA (Qatar) will follow soon.
FAA (USA)
JAA (Japan)
EASA (Europe)
DGAC (India)
DGCA (Chili)
I'm pretty sure the ECAA (Ethiopia) and the CAA (Qatar) will follow soon.
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Well it seems it is a non-issue for Boeing because they took into account a possible battery fire and say the airplane can stay aloft with a full-blown battery fire.
D and F
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All batteries are dangerous, not just lithium. Ten years ago I bought a yacht that had two very large 180Ah 12V sealed lead acids made in Germany by Sonnenschein. The dog's balls of batteries. They were only around six months old and one night, motor-sailing I noticed what seemed like a high persistent charge into the batts. 8A or something, I think, but constant and wasn't falling back, indeed, it seemed to be rising. The batteries were in the engine room and when I investigated one of them was HOT - 80C from my infra red thermometer. I disconnected the hot one, and all was well. Easy at sea level; not so easy at FL300. The cause, I am 99% sure, was the (Japanese, Hitachi) alternator that was producing 15.5V constant --- incredibly that was in-spec for the alternator 
Now I only use unsealed flooded lead acid batts. Mind you, fine at sea-level (though not all would agree) but certainly not from choice in an aircraft, especially a metal one. Hey, did someone say the Dreamliner is made of plastic? 
FLA would be fine unless they try to fly inverted.
Now I only use unsealed flooded lead acid batts. Mind you, fine at sea-level (though not all would agree) but certainly not from choice in an aircraft, especially a metal one. Hey, did someone say the Dreamliner is made of plastic? FLA would be fine unless they try to fly inverted.
The batteries in question have Lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO2) cathodes. Around 10 years ago - when the 787 was being designed - that was the only material available.
My B787 training notes say they are Lithium Manganese.
Could be wrong I suppose.
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No, it's very likely that you are right I may have been quoting outdated information, sorry. It seems that Boeing may have changed to manganese in 2008 from the original design:
Boeing looks to boost 787 lithium ion battery service life
I may have been quoting outdated information, sorry. It seems that Boeing may have changed to manganese in 2008 from the original design:Boeing looks to boost 787 lithium ion battery service life
Last edited by deptrai; 17th Jan 2013 at 10:28.
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It Would be interesting to know how many lithium battery burned with the Tesla car
and what kind of system they use to cool them as well as charge them
I have difficulty to understand that after so many test On the B787 they have now so much problem
Is the problem is the battery or the charging system or both???
and what kind of system they use to cool them as well as charge them
I have difficulty to understand that after so many test On the B787 they have now so much problem
Is the problem is the battery or the charging system or both???
deptrai
Me? Right?
Well that's a first.
LindburghB767
There is a another 787 thread running that has a photo of the Tesla car and (i think) it has a liquid refridgerant cooling system.
Me? Right?
Well that's a first.
LindburghB767
There is a another 787 thread running that has a photo of the Tesla car and (i think) it has a liquid refridgerant cooling system.
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Qatar Airways
Yep, just saw a post from QA stating -
"QATAR AIRWAYS STATEMENT ON BOEING 787s
Following instructions by both the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in the United States and Qatar’s Civil Aviation Authority, Qatar Airways is implementing the Airworthiness Directive issued by the FAA for all operators of the Boeing 787 to ground the aircraft, effective today 17 January 2013.
Qatar Airways Chief Executive Officer Akbar Al Baker said: “I previously stated that Qatar Airways will only stop operating our Dreamliners if we receive such an instruction from regulators.
“Safety remains the number one priority for Qatar Airways. We ensure all our aircraft meet the most stringent safety standards and this will not be compromised in any way.
“In light of recent events surrounding the Boeing 787 Dreamliner worldwide, we are actively working with Boeing and the regulators to restore full customer confidence in the 787.
“Qatar Airways will resume 787 operations when we are clear that the aircraft meets the full requirements of the Airworthiness Directive and our standards which assure the safety of our passengers and crew at all times.
So we are not flying the aircraft until and only such a time this is achieved.
“Qatar Airways would like to express our sincere apologies to passengers booked on our 787 flights, but we are sure they will understand our concerns in view of recent events with other 787 operators around the world.
Our staff are assisting all affected passengers to be accommodated on other flights to get them to their final destination with minimum inconvenience.”
Qatar Airways currently has five Boeing 787-8 aircraft in its fleet."
Quite a shame though. I went to Doha International last week to take some pics of the New B788. Quite a sight.
Even better,
I am traveling to South Africa Next week from Doha and did not book QA, but Ethiopian Airlines to try the new Boeing...
Guess getting to SA in one piece is more important!
"QATAR AIRWAYS STATEMENT ON BOEING 787s
Following instructions by both the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in the United States and Qatar’s Civil Aviation Authority, Qatar Airways is implementing the Airworthiness Directive issued by the FAA for all operators of the Boeing 787 to ground the aircraft, effective today 17 January 2013.
Qatar Airways Chief Executive Officer Akbar Al Baker said: “I previously stated that Qatar Airways will only stop operating our Dreamliners if we receive such an instruction from regulators.
“Safety remains the number one priority for Qatar Airways. We ensure all our aircraft meet the most stringent safety standards and this will not be compromised in any way.
“In light of recent events surrounding the Boeing 787 Dreamliner worldwide, we are actively working with Boeing and the regulators to restore full customer confidence in the 787.
“Qatar Airways will resume 787 operations when we are clear that the aircraft meets the full requirements of the Airworthiness Directive and our standards which assure the safety of our passengers and crew at all times.
So we are not flying the aircraft until and only such a time this is achieved.
“Qatar Airways would like to express our sincere apologies to passengers booked on our 787 flights, but we are sure they will understand our concerns in view of recent events with other 787 operators around the world.
Our staff are assisting all affected passengers to be accommodated on other flights to get them to their final destination with minimum inconvenience.”
Qatar Airways currently has five Boeing 787-8 aircraft in its fleet."
Quite a shame though. I went to Doha International last week to take some pics of the New B788. Quite a sight.
Even better,
I am traveling to South Africa Next week from Doha and did not book QA, but Ethiopian Airlines to try the new Boeing...
Guess getting to SA in one piece is more important!
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787 Problems
Here's one Britisher who is old enough to remember DH Comets falling out of the sky, so let's have no gloating folks.
Boeing and Airbus make fine aircraft (even if FBW) but are both under irresistable pressure to push them into service prematurely.
Meanwhile, I shall continue to choose the 747 across the pond - 4 engines!
Boeing and Airbus make fine aircraft (even if FBW) but are both under irresistable pressure to push them into service prematurely.
Meanwhile, I shall continue to choose the 747 across the pond - 4 engines!
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Don't thrust QUATARY, they are just ephemeral. They were not existing 30 years ago, and they will disappear in ten years. They don't have to blame nor complaint about nothing in the aviation business as I far as I know they never create nothing... hoppefully no battery.
Last edited by greenspinner; 17th Jan 2013 at 11:46.
OLD RED DAMASK
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I don't think it has been pointed out, but the power distribution and charging circuits seem to be made by Thales:
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Has anyone considered that all the recent problems are related? Obviously all are focusing on the battery fires, but is this a battery fault or a charge/discharge problem.? The brakes are electrically operated. the fuel valves are electrically operated, and the usual cause of failure in a/c windscreens is a failure of the electrical heating circuits??
So could there be a connection, electrical surges maybe?
So could there be a connection, electrical surges maybe?
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I've done a lot of searching here and elsewhere but can't find a direct answer to my query. I understand ( from media sources) that the Dreamliner relies more heavily on battery power than other jets. This is because some hydraulic systems have been replaced with lighter electronic alternatives. I read on one media outlet that electronics have replaced hydraulic systems but this isn't correct as we know.
Am I correct in assuming that extra battery power is required to operate lesser hydraulic systems such as actuators etc????......and.......has Boeing cut out a substantial amount of weight by "upgrading" these systems?
Am I correct in assuming that extra battery power is required to operate lesser hydraulic systems such as actuators etc????......and.......has Boeing cut out a substantial amount of weight by "upgrading" these systems?
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I would be interested to know what battery chemistry is used in these batteries. Lithium based batteries vary hugely in their resistance to thermal runaway. For example Lithium ferro magnesium phosphate batteries are very much safer than the more conventional Li Ion batteries used in computers, at the expense of a slightly lower power density. This is illustrated by the following marketing video from a leading manufacturer. Interesting and sobering!
If you don't trust links posted by new posters, just google Valence. Ironically, these safer batteries are used in Segways, but you can't take these batteries on a plane because they are a Lithium based battery and we know how dangerous these are...
If you don't trust links posted by new posters, just google Valence. Ironically, these safer batteries are used in Segways, but you can't take these batteries on a plane because they are a Lithium based battery and we know how dangerous these are...