Dutch TV reports on 'Ryanair pilots denominated alarm over safety'
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Dutch newssite has an article about the news and quotes a Dutch Ryanair pilot.
Piloten Ryanair luiden noodklok over onveilig beleid | nu.nl/buitenland | Het laatste nieuws het eerst op nu.nl
below a Google translate of the reply of a Dutch Ryanair pilot in the article mentioned above. Sorry for some weird translations
A Dutch Ryanair pilot qualifies NU.nl against the objections of his colleagues about the fuel policy of the airline. "Our phones are always plenty of air fuel. Such amounts are established by law and that is what our pilots to. And when a kite with arguments can demonstrate, for example, a weather situation, he added kerosene needs he gets it without problems . "
The pilot sets the ringing of the alarm "not smart action" to find his four colleagues. "It seems like slander of dissatisfaction with the pressure that prevails with Ryanair. That is in my opinion not be higher than other companies which profit is important. There has never been a Ryanair aircraft crashed. If this is done we can packing, so the security is of paramount importance. "
list
At Ryanair is underway with a list, which is maintained with whom the best fuel omspringt. To a high or low ranking are no consequences. "The pilots watch, but a few, barely on that list. Nobody forces you to something. There are pilots who even as low as possible on that list would be. You're a pilot yourself with."
The pilot is more worried about the contracts of many pilots who only get paid when they fly. "Therefore take colleagues sometimes risks, while they may be too sick to fly. It may just 1,000 euros cost if you one day can not work. Society there is very sharp, but it cost the company any money. For the pilots However this also that you do in person. If I do not feel well and I have the responsibility over 180 men, I will not fly. But I can not speak for 3,000 colleagues. "
Piloten Ryanair luiden noodklok over onveilig beleid | nu.nl/buitenland | Het laatste nieuws het eerst op nu.nl
below a Google translate of the reply of a Dutch Ryanair pilot in the article mentioned above. Sorry for some weird translations
A Dutch Ryanair pilot qualifies NU.nl against the objections of his colleagues about the fuel policy of the airline. "Our phones are always plenty of air fuel. Such amounts are established by law and that is what our pilots to. And when a kite with arguments can demonstrate, for example, a weather situation, he added kerosene needs he gets it without problems . "
The pilot sets the ringing of the alarm "not smart action" to find his four colleagues. "It seems like slander of dissatisfaction with the pressure that prevails with Ryanair. That is in my opinion not be higher than other companies which profit is important. There has never been a Ryanair aircraft crashed. If this is done we can packing, so the security is of paramount importance. "
list
At Ryanair is underway with a list, which is maintained with whom the best fuel omspringt. To a high or low ranking are no consequences. "The pilots watch, but a few, barely on that list. Nobody forces you to something. There are pilots who even as low as possible on that list would be. You're a pilot yourself with."
The pilot is more worried about the contracts of many pilots who only get paid when they fly. "Therefore take colleagues sometimes risks, while they may be too sick to fly. It may just 1,000 euros cost if you one day can not work. Society there is very sharp, but it cost the company any money. For the pilots However this also that you do in person. If I do not feel well and I have the responsibility over 180 men, I will not fly. But I can not speak for 3,000 colleagues. "
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Few pilots are in a position to resist a determined and dictatorial management.
Standing on principles is fine and dandy if you have plenty of money, no
mortgage, no family to feed and really don't care if you cannot get another
flying job.
Standing on principles is fine and dandy if you have plenty of money, no
mortgage, no family to feed and really don't care if you cannot get another
flying job.
I have seen quite a few pilots put up with stuff that goes a lot further than fuel management, management getting involved with "tech" issues, loading, FTL's etc. In an environment where there is no protection from unions, no seniority, moving of fleets based on "company needs and ability" a management as described above will have a field day if they wish to get "involved". Anybody believing that this is not the case is naive at best.
Having said that, it seems that people are loosing self respect and a willingness to maintain a certain amount of dignity. In the same Dutch newspaper that the orginal poster is refering to, it mentions a huge shortage of technical educated people. There are other options out there.
Am I now supposed to feel sorry for crews that sold there souls to the devil? Or was there no way that they could see any of this coming?
What did these guys and girls expect, that there was going to be an end to all kinds of mistreatment and the company goal to safe money in every way they can?
I just read a post, "Finnair do a Norwegian", where do you think these companies come up with the ideas? Might it be possible that a certain carrier has done all the homework for them?
The Dutch are not going to give these guys the sucker punch they deserve, they will have some tea and biscuits (koekjes) and move on.
You guys made your bed and now have to sleep in it, and a lot more people will sleep in the same fashion before all this is over.
Last edited by Whip Whitaker; 29th Dec 2012 at 01:20.
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Here is another despegue quote!!!
It was certainly not the choice of nearly anybody within EAT to become a German airline, from the Belgian quality outfit it once was.
Now, the gestapo has taken over and with their xenophobic behaviour want to root out everything non German, including Belgian instructors
Eat is NOT a National airline, it is International and the lingua franka in aviation is only English. Eat aircraft can be based wherever in Europe, and has absolutely NO German heritage. It is simply racism.
Now, the gestapo has taken over and with their xenophobic behaviour want to root out everything non German, including Belgian instructors
Eat is NOT a National airline, it is International and the lingua franka in aviation is only English. Eat aircraft can be based wherever in Europe, and has absolutely NO German heritage. It is simply racism.
Last edited by Mr Angry from Purley; 28th Dec 2012 at 16:03.
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Don't beat up Ryanair, beat up the authorities
I don't work for Ryanair, and I don't like their management.
But, they are not the only airline working exactly to the rules of the authorities.Do they think it is unsafe, if so they and they alone can solve the problem. CHANGE THE RULES!
But they won't, Europe is so busy with the "Green world" they forget what their brief is, or should be SAFETY.
We now have new Euro FTL's which don't take into account the crews, only take account of economy.
So until the Authorities wake up, we may have accidents because of no fuel or accidents because the crew did a 17 hour duty with rest on the aircraft in the galley on a cabin jump seat, with constant noise unable to sleep.
airline will always push the regulations to the edge, so let the Authorities understand that and build a buffer into the regulations.
But, they are not the only airline working exactly to the rules of the authorities.Do they think it is unsafe, if so they and they alone can solve the problem. CHANGE THE RULES!
But they won't, Europe is so busy with the "Green world" they forget what their brief is, or should be SAFETY.
We now have new Euro FTL's which don't take into account the crews, only take account of economy.
So until the Authorities wake up, we may have accidents because of no fuel or accidents because the crew did a 17 hour duty with rest on the aircraft in the galley on a cabin jump seat, with constant noise unable to sleep.
airline will always push the regulations to the edge, so let the Authorities understand that and build a buffer into the regulations.
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While less than keen on the general attitude of the Ryanair management and the enforcement of the fuel policy they are only working within the rules set down by EASA.
On the other hand I would look very carefully at the Spanish low fuel incidents and decide if you think that there is more to this story than Ryanair using minimum fuel.
There are more than two sides to this story with a lot of bending the truth especially from some in the south of Europe.
On the other hand I would look very carefully at the Spanish low fuel incidents and decide if you think that there is more to this story than Ryanair using minimum fuel.
There are more than two sides to this story with a lot of bending the truth especially from some in the south of Europe.
Last edited by A and C; 28th Dec 2012 at 16:38.
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I think that when the inquires into the recent reported Ryanair fuel shortages in Spain you will find that the air traffic services were less than proactive, this has been conveniently ignored by those who are trying to make a political capital in faviour of the old protectionist ways.
I am not saying the Ryanair management are whiter than white just that there are others who are quite happy to be very economical with the truth to further their anti Ryanair objectives.
I am not saying the Ryanair management are whiter than white just that there are others who are quite happy to be very economical with the truth to further their anti Ryanair objectives.
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At least I do tend to keep the discussion lively
Ok, I am not known for my political correctness, that I do admit. But only because I give dearly for this profession and despise those who participate in its demise.
Ok, I am not known for my political correctness, that I do admit. But only because I give dearly for this profession and despise those who participate in its demise.
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I think that when the inquires into the recent reported Ryanair fuel shortages in Spain you will find that the air traffic services were less than proactive, this has been conveniently ignored by those who are trying to make a political capital in faviour of the old protectionist ways.
I am not saying the Ryanair management are whiter than white just that there are others who are quite happy to be very economical with the truth to further their anti Ryanair objectives.
I am not saying the Ryanair management are whiter than white just that there are others who are quite happy to be very economical with the truth to further their anti Ryanair objectives.
Spanish ATC is known for being pretty bad but they definitely don't decide how much fuel you should carry and at what kerosene level you should make the decision to divert.
By the way what are the political reasons for the "northern" dutch to come up with such public accusations as these TV/Radio/News seem to show?
Either everyone is wrong, from the north to the south of Europe, or the untold story is in the Irish field.
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Maybepilot
Ryanair are simply not flying around with less fuel than is required by law, wth all the anti Ryanair publicity doing the rounds do you think that the authority's within EASA are not going to check ? my guess is that the authorities are doing regular ramp checks and finding that Ryanair are within the regulations.......Just !
As I understand it the three aircraft at the same airport had something to do with a number of thunderstorms all at the same time.
As for the Dutch interest, I think this has more to do with the press looking for a story, airline stories are by their very nature international and get reused in a number of countries being presented as some sort of news exclusive that seems to be unique unless you read the papers in several country's.
As I understand it the three aircraft at the same airport had something to do with a number of thunderstorms all at the same time.
As for the Dutch interest, I think this has more to do with the press looking for a story, airline stories are by their very nature international and get reused in a number of countries being presented as some sort of news exclusive that seems to be unique unless you read the papers in several country's.
let this be a lesson to all, download a tapatalk app, and use it during any company discussions, from dispatch, to flt ops, to when you are called on the carpet. I had a particularly disagreeable CP that made the mistake of putting stuff in writing. Needless to say my counsel, laughed about it as after that everything they did had"malice, and forethought"
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Needless to say my counsel, laughed about it as after that everything they did had"malice, and forethought"
You will never ever find good employment again.
This is a sorry state for employees and it is a far cry from a perfect system, but it is what it is.
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David Cameron
What we really need is for David Cameron to stand up and state that all companies adhering to the CAA determined fuel policies are morally unjust and should feel ashamed.
It worked with Starbucks!
It worked with Starbucks!
Last edited by Scoobywill; 28th Dec 2012 at 18:25.
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For what it is worth I am no fan of this company however on another thread about the fuel mayday incidents it is reported that the Ryanair Captains did indeed uplift MORE than the minimum fuel figure.
In other words they looked at the weather and took EXTRA to account for this. A combination of factors including weather and ATC all had their part to play.
For information they were not the only airline to divert and subsequently have a long routing resulting in a low fuel situation. They did not land with far less than final reserve unlike another airline.
Links on the other thread to official reports etc.
In other words they looked at the weather and took EXTRA to account for this. A combination of factors including weather and ATC all had their part to play.
For information they were not the only airline to divert and subsequently have a long routing resulting in a low fuel situation. They did not land with far less than final reserve unlike another airline.
Links on the other thread to official reports etc.
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Don't beat up Ryanair, beat up the authorities
Exactly right. Does anybody think it's coincidental that Ryanair is lobbying against anything that harms their way of doing business at the HQ of EASA?
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As a long serving Training Captain in Ryanair all I can say is the Ryanair fuel policy is you can 'take as much as you want' as long as you justify the extra above the minimum as explained below.
If its a flight where its sector fuel and for example plog fuel is 7450kgs our company policy is round to nearest hundred and add a hundred so minimum fuel becomes 7600kgs.
If I want to take a tonne or two more then I do so and couldnt give two hoots what my Base Captain says.
Only time I have asked to justify my fuel was when I took extra fuel due fog and forgot to put it on the voyage report. Fair cop didnt follow the rules. 2 second discussion all done and dusted.
Not threatened with the sack, demotion or asked to pay for the extra fuel carried. (I say that cos that will be next rumour doing the rounds)
I cant speak for other Captains in FR but I certainly dont feel under pressure. I take what I want but then when weather allows I also take minimum where appropriate.
Simples
If its a flight where its sector fuel and for example plog fuel is 7450kgs our company policy is round to nearest hundred and add a hundred so minimum fuel becomes 7600kgs.
If I want to take a tonne or two more then I do so and couldnt give two hoots what my Base Captain says.
Only time I have asked to justify my fuel was when I took extra fuel due fog and forgot to put it on the voyage report. Fair cop didnt follow the rules. 2 second discussion all done and dusted.
Not threatened with the sack, demotion or asked to pay for the extra fuel carried. (I say that cos that will be next rumour doing the rounds)
I cant speak for other Captains in FR but I certainly dont feel under pressure. I take what I want but then when weather allows I also take minimum where appropriate.
Simples
Last edited by Say Mach Number; 28th Dec 2012 at 19:34.
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I do not fly FR, I find them the scum of the Industry, and their pilots, who after all are Officers and a VITAL part in the company should AT NO POINT have accepted their deteriorating positions and insults from their management.
I'd say it's actually been the lame duck(if it doesn't effect me) attitude of those in a bargaining position that could have an effect on companies, that has allowed for the spiral dive in T&Cs.
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I think there are a few misconceptions as do people really think the nearly 3000 Ryanair pilots enjoy insults and deteriorating conditions - of course not. In my opinion the thing that irks a lot of people is the inability to get leave and of course the respect issue from management.
As for deteriorating conditions am not so sure;
Fixed 5 on 4 off roster
Ok money between £115-120k TRE
Final salary pension (not available now but small pension being offered)
£5k per year to cover expenses and medicals etc
£60 net per day per annual leave day
£230 net day off payment plus sector pay on day
28 days leave
New aircraft 737-800
Lucky to be in a UK base where I want to be.
I cant speak for contractors as I am a permanent employee but this is always the dilemma with FR. They make it just palatable enough that you dont start looking elsewhere.
Nearly 3000 pilots now we cant all be delude - can we?????
Also Ryanair is probably single handed keeping the flying schools of Europe in business as I cant think of any other airlines still hiring in numbers and giving some hope to those wannabes out there shelling out massive wonga on a CPL.
As for deteriorating conditions am not so sure;
Fixed 5 on 4 off roster
Ok money between £115-120k TRE
Final salary pension (not available now but small pension being offered)
£5k per year to cover expenses and medicals etc
£60 net per day per annual leave day
£230 net day off payment plus sector pay on day
28 days leave
New aircraft 737-800
Lucky to be in a UK base where I want to be.
I cant speak for contractors as I am a permanent employee but this is always the dilemma with FR. They make it just palatable enough that you dont start looking elsewhere.
Nearly 3000 pilots now we cant all be delude - can we?????
Also Ryanair is probably single handed keeping the flying schools of Europe in business as I cant think of any other airlines still hiring in numbers and giving some hope to those wannabes out there shelling out massive wonga on a CPL.
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Just saw part 1 of a 2 part series on Ryanair by dutch TV program 'KRO Reporter'
The hours after the program ended #Ryanair was trending topic on Twitter
So the program got a lot of attention.
The program interviewed four Ryanair pilots. Their faces and voices were made unrecognizable. The program made a reconstruction of the three diversions of Ryanair aircraft to Valencia on the same day. All three declared mayday because of low fuel. A Spanish air traffic controller was interviewed as well. Just after the first Ryanair aircraft landed a LAN Chile aircraft diverting to Valencia declared mayday as well. Engine 3 of the Airbus A340 from Frankfurt to Madrid was auto shutdown because of low fuel flow. See
26-julio-2012. EI-EKK. Boeing B737-800. CC-CQF. Airbus A340-300. EI-DHH. Boeing 737-800. EI-ENM. Boeing B737-800. Aproximación al Aeropuerto de Valencia. - 2012 - Investigación - CIAIAC - Órganos Colegiados - Ministerio de Fomento
Very soon after the LAN Chile mayday call the other two Ryanair aircraft declared mayday as well. If the LAN Chile could not evacuate the runway there could be a very nasty situation.
Michael O'leary was seen as well in a press conference in Madrid.
Also interviewed was an ex Ryanair pilot and someone working for the Dutch pilot union. Most of the program is in english so you can see the recording.
KRO Reporter: Mayday Mayday - Uitzending Gemist
Reporter - Mayday Mayday
The tv program had some email correspondance with Ryanair. See this pdf
http://content1b.omroep.nl/b629b40f9...er_ryanair.pdf
Thursday part 2 of the program
The hours after the program ended #Ryanair was trending topic on Twitter
So the program got a lot of attention.
The program interviewed four Ryanair pilots. Their faces and voices were made unrecognizable. The program made a reconstruction of the three diversions of Ryanair aircraft to Valencia on the same day. All three declared mayday because of low fuel. A Spanish air traffic controller was interviewed as well. Just after the first Ryanair aircraft landed a LAN Chile aircraft diverting to Valencia declared mayday as well. Engine 3 of the Airbus A340 from Frankfurt to Madrid was auto shutdown because of low fuel flow. See
26-julio-2012. EI-EKK. Boeing B737-800. CC-CQF. Airbus A340-300. EI-DHH. Boeing 737-800. EI-ENM. Boeing B737-800. Aproximación al Aeropuerto de Valencia. - 2012 - Investigación - CIAIAC - Órganos Colegiados - Ministerio de Fomento
Very soon after the LAN Chile mayday call the other two Ryanair aircraft declared mayday as well. If the LAN Chile could not evacuate the runway there could be a very nasty situation.
Michael O'leary was seen as well in a press conference in Madrid.
Also interviewed was an ex Ryanair pilot and someone working for the Dutch pilot union. Most of the program is in english so you can see the recording.
KRO Reporter: Mayday Mayday - Uitzending Gemist
Reporter - Mayday Mayday
The tv program had some email correspondance with Ryanair. See this pdf
http://content1b.omroep.nl/b629b40f9...er_ryanair.pdf
Thursday part 2 of the program
Last edited by 1stspotter; 28th Dec 2012 at 22:12.