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Boeing 787 Makes Emergency Landing

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Boeing 787 Makes Emergency Landing

Old 7th Dec 2012, 19:21
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The initial report had the genesis of the emergency in the aft EE bay. That
would be the second time this location has caused an immediate landing, the
first time in Laredo.

No following Internal Press have disabused this as the cause here, the EE

The pilot of last Tuesday's flight reportedly asked the firefighters to check for dripping plastic at the electrical bay. But, according to Boeing, there was no problem there.

There was no fire and no sign or electrical arcing, Lori Gunter, a spokeswoman for Chicago-based Boeing Co., said in a statement Wednesday.

The generator breakdown wasn't related to a 2010 short circuit and fire caused by debris in an electrical panel during a test flight, said two people familiar with the matter who weren't authorized to speak publicly.
Boeing 787 generator failure forces jet to land, United says | Tulsa World

It's been suggested in another forum that the pilots thought the problem was more serious than it was. I still don't see where you got to "load failed to redistribute". I haven't seen that reported anywhere.

Last edited by Diamond Bob; 7th Dec 2012 at 19:22.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 20:27
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Wow Clay.We are duly reprimanded.Thankfully,like your company,the 787 will be flown by the most senior pilots and trainers....BYEEEE! The belt loaders and catering trucks will,of course,be driven by the finest operators....
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 21:29
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Sorry Clay. Since you had not addressed your comments,I assumed you were talking to the Aviation community as a whole.
How do the rest of the whole feel? I had assumed that you worked for the company mentioned. Hence the "your company"

Last edited by dash6; 7th Dec 2012 at 21:32.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 23:17
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Do I need to remind you
OK go on then.....
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Old 11th Dec 2012, 14:35
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back in service?

As I type, Flightaware shows three United Airlines 787 flights in the air, having departed Houston over a short period this morning, bound for Newark, Chicago, and Denver.

As United was reported to have taken delivery on three 787's at the time of the incident (LN50, LN53, and LN77) and no new delivery has been reported, this suggests that the incident aircraft has returned to service--possibly some time ago.

Two additional United deliveries are in a late stage of preparation and listed by the All Things 787 site maintainer as possible December deliveries.
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Old 11th Dec 2012, 16:04
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Claybird - "Edit: By the way, I have no desire to fly the 787-8. The 777 pays better anyway."

Aren't they in the same pay bucket?
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Old 11th Dec 2012, 22:43
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According to some inside information posted on A-net, it appears this incident was indeed more serious than Boeing would lead us to believe. Two generator failures, strange banging noises, cabin lights going out and lots of cascading error messages. Also, components in the electrical bay were replaced and there was some evidence of arcing.

Then the mods at A-net locked the thread at it's most interesting phase because some were trying to "derail" the thread by bringing up the Laredo incident! As if they're not related? Ridiculous.

I should say that Lyman appears to be closer to the truth on this incident than I thought.
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 00:32
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Looks like this electrical problem is more widespread after all, from Flight Global:

Qatar Airways chief executive Akbar Al Baker has vented his frustration about more technical problems blighting his Boeing 787s after the airline's third aircraft suffered an electrical issue on its delivery flight and had to be grounded for repairs.

The carrier, which operated its inaugural long-haul 787 service on 13 December from its Doha base to London Heathrow, has received three 787s and will take two more before year-end.

Speaking at Heathrow following the flight from Doha, Al Baker described his frustration about the latest problem and warned Boeing that it had to raise its game. "Unfortunately our third 787 has the same [generator control unit] problem that diverted a United 787," he said. "Fortunately it was on a delivery flight, but the aircraft is grounded and I am very disappointed with Boeing. They have to get their act together very fast because we will not accept any more defects with our aeroplanes because we have waited too long for them."

Al Baker says that the 787 has been "on the ground" since 9 December but he hopes the fault will be rectified and it will be cleared to fly again by around 15 December. "We are happy with Boeing's reaction to our AOG situation," he says.

Qatar is due to receive five more 787s during 2013 and will gradually introduce the type across its network as the fleet expands. The aircraft is now operating daily flights to Heathrow and its next destination will be Perth. Other early European 787 destinations will be Frankfurt and Munich. 787 Flights to Tokyo Haneda and Osaka in Japan as well as to the USA are also planned, says Al Baker.
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 03:20
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Audio recording of the B787 precautionary landing at KMSY is available on this page: LiveATC Recordings | LiveATC.net

(free registration required)

Not much drama on the radio.
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 03:52
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"........Not much drama on the radio."

When aircrew does what is trained, does it well, and there is nothing left to do, the ride is surprisingly calm. That is of course, if there is nothing left to do.

Case in point: "they'll be looking for discoloration and dripping plastic."

Or.... "We'll be in the Hudson..."

That isn't drama, that is skill, competence, and professionalism.

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Old 14th Dec 2012, 06:11
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Same mechanical happened to QATAR last week.

Incident: Qatar B788 near Doha on Dec 8th 2012, generator failure
By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Dec 13th 2012 22:03Z, last updated Thursday, Dec 13th 2012 22:12Z
A Qatar Airways Boeing 787-800, registration A7-BCA performing delivery flight QR-3787 (dep Dec 7th) from Victorville,CA (USA) to Doha (Qatar), completed what appeared to be an eventless 14:37 hours flight with a safe landing on Doha's runway 33 at about 20:06L (17:06Z).

The aircraft wasn't seen since.

On Dec 13th the chairman of Qatar Airways said in an interview that on its delivery flight their third Boeing 787 suffered the same generator failure, that had caused a United Boeing 787 to divert to New Orleans, see Incident: United B788 near New Orleans on Dec 4th 2012, electrical problems causing concerns of electrical heat on board, causing the aircraft to be grounded since Dec 9th. A Boeing repair team and spare parts are being dispatched, the aircraft is expected to remain on the ground for four more days. The chairman voiced his disappointment with Boeing stating "we are buying planes from them to use them, not to put in a museum".

Qatar Airways had received their first Boeing 787 A7-BCB on Nov 13th, which began service on Nov 20th, and their second Boeing 787 A7-BCL on Nov 23rd beginning service on Nov 26th.

Bad batch of generators?

Last edited by captjns; 14th Dec 2012 at 06:13.
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 06:47
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A. Inflight test, tramp metal in the EE bay, Laredo..

B. Generator(s) with noise, surge, and arcing, EE bay. New Orleans.

C. "Same issues as (B)"...... Al Baker, Qatar.

One in flight test, one on revenue, and one on delivery.

Toss out (A), due to tramp conductor left by mechanic. (it could happen...)

This bird has caution all over it, given its problems. And eyeballs focused on her from all corners.

Bad generators, a batch of them?

It sounds more like a systemic controls issue, something more complex than poor QA. The banging on the Newark flight might have been breakers, that is a lot of current in there.

It could easily be poor quality in the collateral equipment, but since it happened twice (thrice?) and given the sensitivity of the situation, it sounds systemic, even perhaps a design issue.

Al Baker was vocal about the engines issue, also, he can't be too pleased just now. Whatever happened on the Doha delivery seemingly was benign enough to allow the completion of the flight to destination.....

Last edited by Lyman; 14th Dec 2012 at 06:55.
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 17:21
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"Once is happenstance, twice is co-incidence, the third time is enemy action Mr Bond"

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Old 16th Dec 2012, 18:01
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It sounds more like a systemic controls issue, something more complex than poor QA. The banging on the Newark flight might have been breakers, that is a lot of current in there.
Perhaps it's a combination of both. The 787 (and 777) don't have the same electrical protection systems that older models to. Specifically, differential protection systems. This kind of sensing can be set at very sensitive levels (a few 10s of Amperes on a 600 Amp load bus*) and quickly clear arcing faults. Differential protection can also localize faults and is used by load transfer logic to switch unfaulted load buses to alternate sources. Without this capability, upon sensing a fault, the entire path from generator to individual load circuit breaker must be considered suspect and cannot be re-energized.

The banging could be caused by an arcing fault that does not have sufficient energy to overload a generator or bus. That's bad, as an arc can dissipate quite a bit of energy without reaching a detectable level.

When one deletes such a critical fault detection scheme, the level of QA and maintenance must be increased dramatically to ensure that faults it would have caught are lowered to the 'extremely unlikely' catagory.

*A more sophisticated version of the GFCI (RCD) breaker found on residential branch circuits. While the circuit overload setting is 20 Amps (US std), the GFCI device can detect leakage currents of 5 milliamps.
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