Ryanair, too low on..
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a couple of comments:
The statements from RYR seem to claim the AV article was objectionably inaccurate. I would like them to be very specific about what. Rather than trying to deflect attention with various claims, spurious or not, I'd like to hear from them the absolute truth. That way the will really deflection attention and close down this discussion. If OFDM data is correct I, and all RYR pilots, want to learn something from this. Let everyone be open about this event. I always thought the idea of OFDM data was to enhance safety and not witch hunt; to share the data and lessons learnt. Until we see certified accurate data acceptable to RYR & AV & IAA & BFU then speculation will abound.
The statements from RYR seem to claim the AV article was objectionably inaccurate. I would like them to be very specific about what. Rather than trying to deflect attention with various claims, spurious or not, I'd like to hear from them the absolute truth. That way the will really deflection attention and close down this discussion. If OFDM data is correct I, and all RYR pilots, want to learn something from this. Let everyone be open about this event. I always thought the idea of OFDM data was to enhance safety and not witch hunt; to share the data and lessons learnt. Until we see certified accurate data acceptable to RYR & AV & IAA & BFU then speculation will abound.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Could be a medical problem. My last flight was an unstable approach, flown by the FO, but with no comment from me. When I saw the FDR printout I realised that, after thirty-nine years in the business, I'd lost it. The result was a nervous breakdown, medical retirement, and I've not flown since. Stranger things have happened.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One has to hope some of these posters are pulling our plonkers and not actually serious. If they are, I hope they are not responsible for passengers' safety
Fatigue? Call in sick, take a day off, take radar vectors whatever, no excuse for bad workmanship. It is the responsibilty of the Captain to ensure the safety of his pax and crew, flying fatigued, letting the FO fudge it, forget it..
Last edited by fireflybob; 5th Dec 2012 at 17:26.
One has to hope some of these posters are pulling our plonkers and not actually serious. If they are, I hope they are not responsible for passengers' safety
(p.s bet you miss wewol days)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Choroni, sometimes
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We ask that the article be removed from the Aviation Herald website and an apology be issued by the AH for implying that the crew did anything wrong when recovering from this unstable approach incident.
This article is being picked up internationally and is inaccurate.
Please give this your urgent attention and call me to discuss.
Regards
Stephen
Stephen McNamara
Head of Communications
Ryanair Head Office
Dublin Airport
This article is being picked up internationally and is inaccurate.
Please give this your urgent attention and call me to discuss.
Regards
Stephen
Stephen McNamara
Head of Communications
Ryanair Head Office
Dublin Airport
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stephen McNamara
an apology be issued by the AH for implying that the crew did anything wrong when recovering from this unstable approach incident.
I thought Ryanair couldn't care less about the public's perception but the recent aggressive pursuits seems to indicate they have become a bit sensitive.
Originally Posted by RAT 5
They were High above an ILS GS, and presumably a VNAV profile, then they were Low on the ILS GS and VNAV profile and all without slowing down significantly. This means they descended through the GS. Does this imply the GS was not armed? After all, the A/P was engaged. The a/c went through the LOC from both directions. Therefore if APP was armed the LOC would have been captured allowing GS to be captured.
The lesson I get from this is the problem that can be created by using the automatics to turn visual base, especially when higher-energy. One needs to devote more time "controlling" the beast (looking at VS, speed) than actually looking at the big picture: where am I, do I want to be here; what do I have to do to fix it/give it away. Good learning scenario...
Join Date: May 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was berated not too long ago by a PPRuNe mod over a previous post I wrote about Ryanair and safety. I therefore welcome the opportunity to put the record straight. I can only assume this was not in fact dangerous in any way, but a totally normal approach for them. As any Ryanair pilot will tell you, it is entirely normal to have a rate of descent in excess of 3200 ft/min 1000' above the airfield. Indeed, the previous 5 pages of comments are merely tittle tattle from disaffected pilots who were unsuccessful in their attempts to join such an illustrious organisation. There clearly is no cause for concern here, because we are told there is not, and that should be good enough. Clearly there was no breach of SOPs either, just an unfortunate misunderstanding, for which we are all extremely grateful. And mercifully, there is no writing on the wall, because it would be offensive to many to suggest there is. I am both heartened and reassured that all is well and that safety was clearly not an issue at any point.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SE Asia
Age: 39
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i can see why the PR dept is getting involved..must be worried in case the red top papers get hold of this incident : 'aircraft plunging towards ground' ,'seconds from disaster' ,'pax screaming'....etc etc
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meerkat
They say sarcasm isn't a desirable trait, I have to disagree this post made my day.
Now I have to go back to the subpoena in US court thread, lets have a drink first.
Cheers
Whip
They say sarcasm isn't a desirable trait, I have to disagree this post made my day.
Now I have to go back to the subpoena in US court thread, lets have a drink first.
Cheers
Whip
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Uh... Where was I?
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for leaving the automatics in after being cleared visual approach would be considered industry best practice espically in an area with a lot of VFR traffic like FMM, reduces workload and frees up capacity to look for other traffic.
In a visual with APFD you have to scan instruments as much as without it. But without it you can adjust flight path more accurately and react more promptly in case of a cessna crossing your proyected path or something.
You guys are nuts accepting uncontrolled VFRs swanning around in your airspace, especially when you're trying to get the thing on the ground. Jets and bugsmashers don't mix!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Uh... Where was I?
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The claims by RYR in the Avherald are OK.
But this does not imply that there is no problem if you make unstable approach as long as you go around in time,
those excessive and hopless sink rates at such low height are unacceptable and very dangerous. Even if you can go around or even stabilize befor 500 ft.
But this does not imply that there is no problem if you make unstable approach as long as you go around in time,
those excessive and hopless sink rates at such low height are unacceptable and very dangerous. Even if you can go around or even stabilize befor 500 ft.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RY appear to be wasting their time in the PR department and merely making things worse (not the first time!). Before we all get TOO excited about all this (frightening) event, it is worth remembering it happened on 23/9 and perhaps we should be focusing on the action taken by the airline to ensure it does not happen again? I'm sure any such 'action' is long gone by now.