TWO packed Qantas jets came within 250m of a mid-air collision
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TWO packed Qantas jets came within 250m of a mid-air collision
TWO packed Qantas jets came within 250m of a mid-air collision last week, according to an incident report.
A QantasLink Boeing 717 with 115 passengers was approaching Darwin International Airport last Tuesday when an RAAF air traffic controller inadvertently put it on a collision course with a Qantas Boeing 737-838 carrying 155 passengers which had taken off minutes earlier.
During a hair-raising moment, the collision avoidance system on board the Boeing 717, en route from Alice Springs, warned the pilots that the other plane was 800ft (250m) beneath them.
But Captain Robert Flipo chillingly wrote that "it must have got a lot closer than that".
According to a source familiar with the near miss, after the Melbourne-bound 737 took off from runway 29 shortly after 1.30pm the RAAF's Australian Defence Air Traffic System mistakenly assigned the tag for the plane to one of its Hercules C-130 aircraft flying through the control tower's airspace.
This meant air traffic controllers were not able to see the plane's identity, speed or height. Compounding the problem, an air traffic controller then allegedly confused the inbound 717 with the Hercules before accidently setting it on a collision course.
"We had been given a series of apparently non-sensical (sic) clearances both lateral and vertical," Captain Flipo wrote in a report. "We asked several times as to the intentions of ATC, e.g. what approach/track miles to expect, but received non-conclusive response."
After clearing the aircraft to land on runway 29 an air traffic controller cleared the plane to descend to 7000ft, he said.
The first officer, Andrew Field-Dodgson, was about to recommence descent when he spotted the other plane.
"It passed directly below us. I saw the traffic collision avoidance system display traffic 800ft (250m) below, and now descending at over 500ft per min," Mr Flipo said.
Darwin Airport is a shared public and military facility, and the RAAF is responsible for air traffic control.
A Defence spokesman said an air traffic controller had been suspended and there would be an investigation..
"An initial Defence investigation indicates that an Air Traffic Controller inadvertently directed an arriving and a departing aircraft on a path that would have taken the aircraft through the same height," he said.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating the incident and a Qantas spokeswoman said as the matter was under investigation they were unable to comment
Read more: Jets put on the path to disaster | News.com.au
A QantasLink Boeing 717 with 115 passengers was approaching Darwin International Airport last Tuesday when an RAAF air traffic controller inadvertently put it on a collision course with a Qantas Boeing 737-838 carrying 155 passengers which had taken off minutes earlier.
During a hair-raising moment, the collision avoidance system on board the Boeing 717, en route from Alice Springs, warned the pilots that the other plane was 800ft (250m) beneath them.
But Captain Robert Flipo chillingly wrote that "it must have got a lot closer than that".
According to a source familiar with the near miss, after the Melbourne-bound 737 took off from runway 29 shortly after 1.30pm the RAAF's Australian Defence Air Traffic System mistakenly assigned the tag for the plane to one of its Hercules C-130 aircraft flying through the control tower's airspace.
This meant air traffic controllers were not able to see the plane's identity, speed or height. Compounding the problem, an air traffic controller then allegedly confused the inbound 717 with the Hercules before accidently setting it on a collision course.
"We had been given a series of apparently non-sensical (sic) clearances both lateral and vertical," Captain Flipo wrote in a report. "We asked several times as to the intentions of ATC, e.g. what approach/track miles to expect, but received non-conclusive response."
After clearing the aircraft to land on runway 29 an air traffic controller cleared the plane to descend to 7000ft, he said.
The first officer, Andrew Field-Dodgson, was about to recommence descent when he spotted the other plane.
"It passed directly below us. I saw the traffic collision avoidance system display traffic 800ft (250m) below, and now descending at over 500ft per min," Mr Flipo said.
Darwin Airport is a shared public and military facility, and the RAAF is responsible for air traffic control.
A Defence spokesman said an air traffic controller had been suspended and there would be an investigation..
"An initial Defence investigation indicates that an Air Traffic Controller inadvertently directed an arriving and a departing aircraft on a path that would have taken the aircraft through the same height," he said.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating the incident and a Qantas spokeswoman said as the matter was under investigation they were unable to comment
Read more: Jets put on the path to disaster | News.com.au
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This surely cannot be! The Australian ATC is the creme de la creme of ATC worldwide. Woe betide those who don't meet their exacting standards of control. I should know...I was cited for ATC violation for sending a " back on route " CPDLC message when we were LNAV captured back on the airways; we were told off for being 0.15nm off route! YBBB at their B game at that! Heavens help you when they are at the A game.
Last edited by Sampan Angkasa; 9th Oct 2012 at 23:16.
But no TCAS RA ?
Bit of a non-story methinks. The article quoted is clearly from a newspaper - you can tell from the stupid unnecessarily alarmist language: "TWO packed Qantas jets came within 250m of a mid-air collision", and is making a mountain out of a molehill.
A similar situation sometimes happens when traffic following a SID from LHR causes a TCAS TA to overflying aircraft, but no more than that.
Seems as though a controller got things slightly wrong here, but no damage done, and a lesson learned I expect.
Bit of a non-story methinks. The article quoted is clearly from a newspaper - you can tell from the stupid unnecessarily alarmist language: "TWO packed Qantas jets came within 250m of a mid-air collision", and is making a mountain out of a molehill.
A similar situation sometimes happens when traffic following a SID from LHR causes a TCAS TA to overflying aircraft, but no more than that.
Seems as though a controller got things slightly wrong here, but no damage done, and a lesson learned I expect.
Last edited by Uplinker; 10th Oct 2012 at 08:20.
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But no TCAS RA ?
"It passed directly below us. I saw the traffic collision avoidance system display traffic 800ft (250m) below, and now descending at over 500ft per min," Mr Flipo said.
This surely cannot be! The Australian ATC is the creme de la creme of ATC worldwide. Woe betide those who don't meet their exacting standards of control. I should know...I was cited for ATC violation for sending a " back on route " CPDLC message when we were LNAV captured back on the airways; we were told off for being 0.15nm off route! YBBB at their B game at that! Heavens help you when they are at the A game.
Safety culture and just culture isn't in australia anymore, you should just be greatful that some one was there to talk to because some days your on your own.
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If this is newsworthy, what about the 744's that miss a head on collision by 330 meters (1000 ft) every day. Opposite direction FL310 / FL320?
Ohhh, I see, that was planned...
Ohhh, I see, that was planned...
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From the ATSB website:
A Boeing 717 inbound to Darwin was cleared to descend through the level of an
outbound Boeing 737 near Darwin. ATC subsequently cancelled the clearance and there was no breakdown of separation standards however a loss of separation assurance occurred. The investigation is continuing.
Not even the ATSB sound like they are overly concerned.
But no
"Qantas jets put on the path to disaster!"
A Boeing 717 inbound to Darwin was cleared to descend through the level of an
outbound Boeing 737 near Darwin. ATC subsequently cancelled the clearance and there was no breakdown of separation standards however a loss of separation assurance occurred. The investigation is continuing.
Not even the ATSB sound like they are overly concerned.
But no
"Qantas jets put on the path to disaster!"
This is just irresponsible sensationalist journalism - the sort of thing you see in the "Hate Mail" every day. Simple stories dressed up to be huge potential disasters just to sell papers.
The sort of thing in this 'story' happens from time to time in such a complex environment as commercial flying airspace - which is why there are two pilots in every commercial cockpit and a controller and an assistant at every ATC desk, and why TCAS was developed - to protect against the occasional 'human element'.
This 'story' is no more newsworthy than me almost pulling out in front of another car due to a moment's distraction, but stopping just in time.
The Journos involved here need to have more respect and personal pride - and stop treating their readers as gormless idiots. A simple sober statement and presentation of facts and reasons was all that was required.
The sort of thing in this 'story' happens from time to time in such a complex environment as commercial flying airspace - which is why there are two pilots in every commercial cockpit and a controller and an assistant at every ATC desk, and why TCAS was developed - to protect against the occasional 'human element'.
This 'story' is no more newsworthy than me almost pulling out in front of another car due to a moment's distraction, but stopping just in time.
The Journos involved here need to have more respect and personal pride - and stop treating their readers as gormless idiots. A simple sober statement and presentation of facts and reasons was all that was required.
Two fully loaded LPG Semi-trailers narrowly avoid a catastrophic 240 km/h head on collision as they pass each other in opposite directions with a terrifying 5 feet of separation on the Hume Hwy. Witnesses claim it's a regular occurrence, one claims it's just a disaster waiting to happen...... Shock Horror ...... in other news a crocodile was found in Rundle Mall in Darwin..... Nothing to see hear folks, move along.
Last edited by Mud Skipper; 11th Oct 2012 at 14:04.
Too few women in Australian Aviation
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I'm no expert, but isn't 250m quite a long way?
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Departing Miami in a B757 one day we were given a clearance by departure to climb to 8,000 ft. I read the clearance back and told the FO, that is strange, arrivals descend to 8 and departures climb to 7. The FO said we are cleared to 8. Out of 6,000 I saw opposite direction traffic approaching us at 8,000. I told the FO do not go above 7,000 until we clear traffic. I called departure and said verify we are cleared to 8,000 on our climb. He said no, you are cleared to 7,000 ft. I said I read back 8,000, my FO verified your clearance but we had traffic on our TCAS so stayed at 7,000.
It was no big deal because we knew something was wrong but a new person leaving MIA wouldn't know standard procedures. Everybody makes a mistake now and then, just cover your butt when things don't look right.
It was no big deal because we knew something was wrong but a new person leaving MIA wouldn't know standard procedures. Everybody makes a mistake now and then, just cover your butt when things don't look right.
For any non-pilots or non-ATC reading this thread: 100's of times every day, commercial airliners are passing 1,000' directly above or below each other, flying in airways in opposite directions at a closing speed of 900 miles per hour. This is a perfectly normal regulated situation and is called RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum).
As Mud Skipper has demonstrated, a perfectly normal event can be made to sound dangerous or uncontrolled to those who have no knowledge or experience in that field.
The event being discussed in this thread was the result of a minor mistake, which was corrected; but because there are many layers of safety built in to commercial flying nowadays, the result was a safe outcome which was not dangerous, and not newsworthy.
U
As Mud Skipper has demonstrated, a perfectly normal event can be made to sound dangerous or uncontrolled to those who have no knowledge or experience in that field.
The event being discussed in this thread was the result of a minor mistake, which was corrected; but because there are many layers of safety built in to commercial flying nowadays, the result was a safe outcome which was not dangerous, and not newsworthy.
U
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Uplinker, perhaps 100's of times a day aircraft do pass with 1000' separation.
BUT, 100's of times a day, two aircraft aren't vectored head on to each other, then cleared to simultaneously climb and descend into one another.
BUT, 100's of times a day, two aircraft aren't vectored head on to each other, then cleared to simultaneously climb and descend into one another.